Text 37844, 147 rader
Skriven 2006-08-30 10:40:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ROY WITT
Ärende: CELEBRATION!          1/2
=================================
Hello Roy,

>LL>A conditional surrender would have given the Japanese high command
>LL>some leverage, although not much, in regards to saving their own
>LL>skin.

>RW>See above. What they finally agreed to was an unconditional
>RW>surrender, one that didn't even protect their precious Emperor.

>LL>The unconditional surrender meant surrender under terms of the
>LL>Potsdam Agreement.

>RW>Correct.

>LL>Any set of terms means such a surrender was conditional.

>RW>Sure, but in this case, the conditions were set by the winner, not
>RW>as the loser would have it.

>LL>Japan chose to surrender to the Americans rather than to the
>LL>Russians. There was a reason why.

RW>Of course! They knew the philosophical difference between the two was
RW>different. Would they rather be free under a democratic regime or would
RW>they rather be slaves under a communist regime. There really was no
RW>choice.

Philosophical difference had little or nothing to do with it.  The
Japanese thought they would get better conditions by surrendering to
the Americans rather than to the Russians.

>LL>IOW, the unconditional surrender that Truman accepted was the
>LL>unconditional surrender as defined by Harry S Truman.

>RW>No, unconditional surrender is a surrender without conditions,
>RW>except for those provided by international law.

>LL>Had Japan surrendered to the Russians, the so-called "unconditional
>LL>surrender" would have been much different than the so-called
>LL>"unconditional surrender" imposed upon Japan by the United States.

RW>See above.

The will of the Emperor was everything to the Japanese.  The
Japanese worshipped the Emperor as a living god.  What the Emperor
said, the Emperor got.  IOW, there was no will of the people.  And
that is the way it had been since time began.  Even today, Japanese
culture remains virtually the same as it had been centuries before.
Japanese society has changed, to be sure.  But society and culture
are two very different things.  A society can exist within a culture.
But a culture cannot exist within a society.

>LL>Not necessarily the same thing as the unconditional surrender as
>LL>defined by the Potsdam Declaration.

>RW>Not quite. The initial unconditional surrender terms were spelled
>RW>out at the Casablanca Conference 1943, which was presented to the US
>RW>people via a 'Fireside Chat' by radio from FDR.

>LL>It was the Potsdam Declaration that was the basis of the
>LL>unconditional surrender.

RW>Wrong. It was the one I mentioned above that set the stage.

The Japanese Cabinet wrote the imperial rescript and the Foreign Office
drew up the note of final surrnder, sending it off to its ministers in
Switzerland and Sweden.  Here is what it read -

---

Communication of the Japanese Government of August 14, 1945, addressed
to the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, the Soviet
Union, and China:

With reference to the Japanese Government's note of August 10 regarding
their acceptance of the provisions of the Postsdam Declaration and the
reply of the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, the Soviet
Union and China sent by the American Secretary of State Byrnes under the
date of August 11, the Japanese Government has the honor to communicate
to the Governments of the Four Powers as follows:

1. His Majesty the Emperor has issued an imperial rescript regarding
Japan's acceptance of the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration.

2. His Majesty the Emperor is prepared to authorize and ensure the
signature of his government and the Imperial General Headquarters of the
necessary terms for carrying out the provisions of the Potsdam
Declaration.  His Majesty is also prepared to issue his commands to all
military, naval and air authorities of Japan and all the forces under
their control wherever located to cease active operations, to surrender
arms and to issue such other orders as may be required by the Supreme
Commander of the Allied Forces for the execution of the above-mentioned
terms.

[The Decision To Drop The Bomb, by Len Giovannitti and Fred Freed,
1965, pp. 294-295]

---

>LL>However, Truman chose to ignore the Potsdam Declaration when it
>LL>came to the status of the Emperor.

RW>Truman had nothing to do with it.

Truman had everything to do with it.

>LL>To put it simply - there is no such thing as an unconditional
>LL>surrender.

>RW>There is, if you're the loser. Japan found that out when they
>RW>presented an offer of surrender under certain conditions, which was
>RW>denied by the allies.

>LL>The United States rejected Japan's offer of conditional surrender.

RW>Correct! And in the process, the US proposed an 'unconditional' surrender
RW>that the Japs accepted.

The Japanese accepted the conditions proposed in the Potsdam
Declaration.  Of course, once the Japanese actually surrendered,
they had little choice but to go along with whatever America
wanted.

>LL>Except in the game of chess.  In which case an opponent might be
>LL>left with no other choice.  :)

>RW>I keep a big hammer in my luggage for such games.

>LL>Friedrich Nietzche practiced philosophy with a hammer, so why not
>LL>play chess the same way?

RW>Nietzche is dead. He didn't know how to play the game.

Nietzche played chess in his head.

>LL>As for the status of Hirohito, a "secret deal" was made between
>LL>President Harry S Truman and Hirohito, thus allowing the Emperor to
>LL>keep his head.

>RW>Wrong.

>LL>Hirohito survived because Truman allowed him to live.  It's that
>LL>simple.
>>> Continued to next message

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