Text 37908, 125 rader
Skriven 2006-08-30 23:33:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ROY WITT
Ärende: CELEBRATION!
====================
Hello Roy,

[..]

>LL>The will of the Emperor was everything to the Japanese.  The
>LL>Japanese worshipped the Emperor as a living god.  What the Emperor
>LL>said, the Emperor got.  IOW, there was no will of the people.

RW>Sure there was a will of the people. To worship the emperor god.

What the Emperor said the Emperor got.  Regardless of what the people
said or wanted.

>LL>And that is the way it had been since time began.  Even today,
>LL>Japanese culture remains virtually the same as it had been centuries
>LL>before.

RW>No...it's quite different today.

Japanese society is different.  But the culture remains the same.

>LL>Japanese society has changed, to be sure.  But society and culture
>LL>are two very different things.  A society can exist within a culture.
>LL>But a culture cannot exist within a society.

RW>What have you been smokin'? The US is a society with multi-cultures within
RW>it's borders. Japan has at least two cultures within it's society.

Japanese look upon themselves as being "the white race of Asia".
Very few Japanese marry outside of their own.  In that way, the
race remains pure.

Look at it this way.  The Cajun culture existed before the USA came
into being.  The Cajun culture exists today.  And the Cajun culture
will continue to exist long after the USA has collapsed and gone.

>LL>Not necessarily the same thing as the unconditional surrender as
>LL>defined by the Potsdam Declaration.

>RW>Not quite. The initial unconditional surrender terms were spelled
>RW>out at the Casablanca Conference 1943, which was presented to the
>RW>US people via a 'Fireside Chat' by radio from FDR.

>LL>It was the Potsdam Declaration that was the basis of the
>LL>unconditional surrender.

>RW>Wrong. It was the one I mentioned above that set the stage.

>LL>The Japanese Cabinet wrote the imperial rescript and the Foreign
>LL>Office drew up the note of final surrnder, sending it off to its
>LL>ministers in Switzerland and Sweden.  Here is what it read -

RW>Which was setup from the beginning at the Casablanca Conference...

I hate to bust your bubble, but the Japanese cited the Potsdam
Declaration, which was the end result of the Potsdam Conference.

>LL>---

[..]

>LL>With reference to the Japanese Government's note of August 10
>LL>regarding their acceptance of the provisions of the Postsdam
>LL>Declaration and the reply of the Governments of the United States,

[..]

>LL>1. His Majesty the Emperor has issued an imperial rescript regarding
>LL>Japan's acceptance of the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration.

>LL>2. His Majesty the Emperor is prepared to authorize and ensure the
>LL>signature of his government and the Imperial General Headquarters of
>LL>the necessary terms for carrying out the provisions of the Potsdam
>LL>Declaration.  His Majesty is also prepared to issue his commands to

[..]

>LL>[The Decision To Drop The Bomb, by Len Giovannitti and Fred Freed,
>LL>1965, pp. 294-295]

>LL>---

>LL>However, Truman chose to ignore the Potsdam Declaration when it
>LL>came to the status of the Emperor.

>RW>Truman had nothing to do with it.

>LL>Truman had everything to do with it.

RW>Nada...

FDR was dead.  Truman was alive.

>LL>To put it simply - there is no such thing as an unconditional
>LL>surrender.

>RW>There is, if you're the loser. Japan found that out when they
>RW>presented an offer of surrender under certain conditions, which was
>RW>denied by the allies.

>LL>The United States rejected Japan's offer of conditional surrender.

>RW>Correct! And in the process, the US proposed an 'unconditional'
>RW>surrender that the Japs accepted.

>LL>The Japanese accepted the conditions proposed in the Potsdam
>LL>Declaration.

RW>Which were drawn up at the Casablanca Conference, which was attended by
RW>Roosevelt, not Truman.

I hate to bust your bubble, but FDR was dead.  Truman was president.
And very much alive.  The Japanese cited the Potsdam Declaration, not
any other declaration, or even a conference.

Sure, there were other conferences held between the Allies.  But it was
the Potsdam Conference that produced the Potsdam Declaration, and it was
the Potsdam Declaration which was cited by the Japanese government.

--Lee


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