Text 40135, 114 rader
Skriven 2006-09-27 21:42:21 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 40071 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: terrorism
=================
Hello Michiel.

27 Sep 06 19:37, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff.

 MV> 26 Sep 06 16:39, you wrote to me:

 MV>>> But you totally ignore any thing other than a failing moderator
 MV>>> as the cause of the problem.

 JS>>      The moderator is the person responsible for maintaing order
 JS>> and requesting behavior changes of participants when nessesary
 JS>> amoung other things. If there is a problem in the echo it is up
 JS>> to the
 MV> [..]
 JS>> performance as moderator and the lack of respect that people had
 JS>> in him as moderator. Don't you think that someone should be
 JS>> responsible for their own actions? Don't you think Björn should
 JS>> be responsible for the manner in which he moderates and the
 JS>> results of his job of moderating? Or is he somehow exempt?

 MV> Jeff, you are starting to sound like a broken record. You try to
 MV> convey the attitude of a reasonable man with a balanced view that
 MV> takes all aspects in consideration,


     I try to be. Wish I succeded more often though.

 MV> but in reality


     Now how did I KNOW that you were going to say "BUT"?

 MV> you don't listen
 MV> and totally ignore anything that does not lead straight to the
 MV> conclusion: replace Björn.

     On the contrary if you read back you will notice that I also said
that I would prefer Björn being the moderator. Even in the article that I
submitted to the Fidonews I think I mentioned that the current problems
in the Fidonews echo could be corrected by the current Fidonews moderator.
I probably have dwelled on replacement more because from what I have seen
from Björn he is content with the chaos in this echo and this is his way
of moderating. I'm sorry Michiel, but an echo where I would be concerned
about my daughter reading some of what is being said here is an echo out
of control. If Björn *chooses* not to act as a moderator *then* it is
time for a change IMHO. The responsibility for Björn's actions or inactions
as moderator is his.


 MV> You may deny it but what you say is exactly what a supporter of that
 MV> hard core of Z1 participants who can not accept that things are now
 MV> done the Z2 way would say if he wanted to avoid saying that aloud but
 MV> nevertheless wanted the result to be that things were run the Z1 way
 MV> again.


     Zone 1, zone 2, why should it matter? If Björn's zone 2 way of moderating
this echo worked. That would be fine with me and you wouldn't be hearing any
complaints from me on the issue. The problem is that the current way doesn't
look to be working. A simple look at the current condition of the echo makes
that obvious. I tried to offer suggestions based on what had worked for me
as a moderator. They were rejected outright soley because they came from
someone in zone 1. God forbid any ideas come from another zone *ESPECIALLY*
zone 1. To me the best idea is the one that works regardless from who or where
is comes from. But unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case here.


 MV> Well, sorry that is not going to happen, not if I can help it, as that
 MV> would be giving in to those who have made it impossible for Björn to
 MV> effecitively moderate and to the echomail terrorists who have made
 MV> this echo into what it is now.


     There isn't any sign of Björn even trying to effectively moderate
this echo. What can be seen is an echo where people run wild saying and
behaving as they choose.

 MV> Don't like the Z2 way this is handled? Very well, then follow the Z1
 MV> way of dealing with an echo that you think is badly moderated: leave
 MV> and start your own.

     And what would that solve? It would serve no purpose other than to
segregate Fidonet more than it already is. Is zone 2's way of doing things
helping or hurting Fidonet if the result is a more divided and less appealing
network?


 MV> There is nothing that says discussing the content of the Fidonews
 MV> publication is limited to this echo. So if you wish to discuss
 MV> FideNews without Björn as moderator, start your own echo and do it
 MV> your way. Good luck.

     The echo for that already exists and should be done here.

 MV> As far as I am concerned everything has been said on the subject.


     While I would tend to agree with you I doubt that will be the case.


 MV> Cheers,


 MV> Michiel

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 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Jeff

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