Text 41025, 151 rader
Skriven 2006-10-09 17:24:41 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 41011 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Replace Bjorn?                      Was: DUD-file
=========================================================
Hello Roy.

09 Oct 06 13:43, you wrote to me:

 RW> 09 Oct 06 15:48, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Jeff Smith:

 MV>>>> The only idea you have offered is: "replace Björn". When
 MV>>>> presented with the real causes for the problems at hand you
 MV>>>> turn a deaf ear.

 RW> Proclaimed the pot.


     He knows that isn't the case. It's hard to talk to someone that
is stuck in a case of denial.

 MV>>>> You pretend to be reasonable but in effect you are as stubborn
 MV>>>> as a mule.

 RW> Hmmm, he describes a dutch trait of which his is the most prominent.


    Don't know if it's a trait limited to the Dutch or not. Regardless,
it doesn't look like being reasonable is something he is worried about.


MV> say you want to work together for the benefit of FidoNet,


 RW> You know of course that this won't happen as long as Vlist has any say
 RW> in the matter. BTW, he seems to be the only one interested in beating
 RW> you about the head and shoulders with this diatribe.


     Yup. Michiel found a tool (Fidonews) that he can use to try to prove
his points and to make sure that things stay the Z2 way. I still am not
sure of the Z2 way, or the Z1 way for that matter. It never seemed important
to look at things from a zonal point of view. Michiel is sure fixated on
looking at things that way though. A point he refers too in almost every
message on the subject.


 MV>>>> but in effect you just want to impose your ways of doing on the
 MV>>>> rest of us.

 RW> LOL! As if that's not his agenda.


       Typtical tactic. Blame others for doing the very thing that you are
doing yourself.


 JS>>> Stubborn? Sometimes. In this case 'Determined' is a more
 JS>>> accurate term.

 MvdV>> Jehova's Witnesses are very "determined" too....


       Guess Jehova Witnesses are low on his buddy list. Gosh, an American
Jehova Witness must be the root of all evil to Michiel then? <g>


 RW> So are the North Koreans, but that's as far away from the subject as
 RW> the Jehovah Witnesses from Fidonet, more specifically, this echo.

 JS>>> I am determined to see that the problem in this echo isn't left
 JS>>> as is. I am determinded to see that the moderator again acts as a
 JS>>> moderator

 MvdV>> He does act as a moderator. Just not the way you like.

 RW> If he acted as a moderator, this thread wouldn't be allowed in this
 RW> echo. It has nothing to do with Fidonews the publication.


     Agreed. If the moderator actually moderated I wouldn't be talking like
this either. Most of the discussion here has nothing to do with Fidonews.
I would think that many of the percieved troublemakers now in this echo
would act differently if they had some respect for the moderator. I know
that I would. It has been stated several times to me that I am not taken
seriously because I don't speak up to you and Frank and chastise you for your
behavior. I have tried to explain that that is exactly what the
moderator should be doing. I haven't chastised you just as I haven't
chastised Michiel or Björn F. I have indeed argued with Michiel and the
oyhers though. I see it as merely an attempt at avoiding having to deal
with my questions.


    Bottom line is that it isn't my place to act as moderator here. That's
the moderator's job.


 JS>>>  or a replacement is chosen.

 MvdV>> And since he isn't going to act as moderator the way you like
 MvdV>> it, because even if he wanted to do that, which he apparently
 MvdV>> does not, that is impossible. And you know that.

 MvdV>> So the bottom line: you want him replaced.

 RW> Jeff, you should call the question; Does everyone else in the echo
 RW> think that the, errr so-called moderator is doing his job? If not,
 RW> then should there be an election held to find one who will? If yes to
 RW> the first question, then everyone who doesn't like the present state
 RW> of affairs in the echo, should put up or shut up. If yes to the second
 RW> question, then call for and hold an election.

 JS>>> I am determinded to see that the moderator again acts asa
 JS>>> moderator or a replacement is chosen.

 MvdV>> IOW you are just going to push and push and push until you get
 MvdV>> your way.

       If Michiel is suggesting that I intend to continue to see that
Björn starts acting as a moderator or let's someone else take over that
will actually moderate. Then he is right. Again it doesn't matter what
zone the moderator is from. Just that the job gets done.

 RW> Vlist is amazed that there is someone more stubborn than he.


     Being stubborn isn't nessesarily bad. Where it becomes a problem
is when one refuses to listen to others or even consider the possibility
that there might be a better way. Regardless of what any one person thinks
there is always a better way that something can be done. The truely ignorant
person IMHO is the one that refuses to listen to others. The ability to
learn new ways stops at that point.


 MvdV>> Well, I don't want to be shoved anymore. You have shown your
 MvdV>> true colours.


        As I have told Michiel I am a rather simple man. I work based mainly
on principles. Have fun but at the same time try to say what you mean and
mean what you have said. I wish I was more articulate though sometimes.


 RW> The coward's way out.


 RW>                R\%/itt


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Jeff

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