Text 41185, 91 rader
Skriven 2006-10-13 08:18:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 41182 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Ärende: Moderation
==================
Hello Dale!

On Friday October 13 2006 00:07, you wrote to me:

 MVDV>> In the old days, his was never a point of discussion. The
 MVDV>> moderator was always right. It was not subject to 'respect'
 MVDV>> and it was not subject to the moderator sticking to his own
 MVDV>> rules (By who's judgment?). The moderator was always right.
 MVDV>> Period.

 MVDV>> Now this seems to have all changed...

 DS>   A major point in that change was when Ward caused the over throw of
 DS>   the legitimately elected moderator in the FN_SYSOP echo, thus
 DS> setting the precedence that it was ok to defy the moderator,

That was just another link in the chain of events, that were already set in
motion over a year before. When Joe Delahaye was moderator of Effie, he was
unable to control Roy, and finally gave up. Thus setting the precepdent that it
was ok to defy the moderator...

 DS> especially if you had enough friends to give you alternate feeds.

If even Roy can get alternatie feeds, everyone can get alternate feeds.

We can argue forever how this came about an point fingers all over the place,
it is not going to help. The genie is out of the bottle and it wiil not go back
in.

 MVDV>> I think we will just have to live with the fact that moderation
 MVDV>> as it was  done ten years ago is a thing of the past. All this
 MVDV>> talk about "respect" is nonsense. Ten years ago moderator could
 MVDV>> effectively moderate because as a deterrent he had the power to
 MVDV>> order a feed cut and had the unconditional support of the
 MVDV>> distributors. (Because a distributor not cooperating had *his*
 MVDV>> feed cut)

 DS>    IMO, only the GAWD moderators leaned on that crutch.  The better
 DS> ones never had to even threaten it.

Of course. With a good moderator is was never even mentioned. But it was there
and that made al the difference.

 MVDV>> The world has changed. In the past users had limited means
 MVDV>> to access an echomail area. Getting it from beyond the
 MVDV>> local POTS calling area was usually prohibited for cost
 MVDV>> reasons.

 DS>   In the years that I been participating in Fidonet as a point and as
 DS> a node, I have never called POTS for my mail.

When I joined as point in 1992, the only alternative was floppy mail.

 MVDV>> But now, with Fido Over IP, the user can can link almost
 MVDV>> anywhere in the world and the moderator has lost the weapon
 MVDV>> of the feed cut.

 DS>    It was always a draconian weapon anyhow -- as I said only used by
 DS>    those who felt that they were lord and master of their echo,
 DS>    instead of its sheppard.

No argument thare. Does not change the fact that the simple fact that it was
there made all the difference. And yes it also was abused by some. And I say
that the abuse was *also* a link in the chain of events that eventually lead to
moderators losing the weapon. You say Ward defied Roy. I say that was triggered
by Roy abysing the weapon by ordering a feed cut "just because he could".

All water inder the bridge...

 MVDV>> We shall just have to learn to live with it.

 DS>   Perhaps

I do not think there is a perhaps about it. It will never be as it was ten
years ago.

 DS>  -- but that does not mean that we have to tolerate it quietly.

To improve the situation we have to rid ourselves of the real offenders. That
is not going to happen however. We have seen it more than once. Every time an
opportunity pops up, enough people bend over backwards to accomodate him/her
and within a week they are back in.

The only way left seems to be the "reinforced next key".


Cheers, Michiel


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