Text 41408, 138 rader
Skriven 2006-10-17 10:27:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 41361 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
Ärende: DUD-file
================
Hello Jeff!

On Sunday October 15 2006 20:56, you wrote to All:

 MV>> But then again, it *does* mean something in the USA. Shannon has
 MV>> copyrighted material on his website: the articles I wrote for
 MV>> FodoNews. And not just the two latest ones that had a copyright
 MV>> notice attached. ALL my articles.

 RW>>> Unless of course, he can show permission from the copyright
 RW>>> holder to distribute.

 MV>> Which Shannon can not.

 JS>      What's the point here people?

You would not have to ask if you knew the history....

 JS> I know what has been said by both sides. No offense to Michiel but
 JS> what in his articles is that important that it needs to be
 JS> copyrighted. Is a copyright really needed

You are missing the point. Imagine a medicine man somewhere in the dark corners
of Africa where white man has not yet roamed. Every morning the medicine man
gets up in the dark, climbs the hill next to the village and waves his juju to
make the sun rise. And the sun rises..

I did no more "copyright" my article than that the medicine man makes the sun
rise. The people of his tribe may believe so, but that does not make it. The
sun will rise and the copyright is there  anyway.

The copyright exists the moment the article is written. It is implicit and
automatic. At least in this part of the world. If Björn were to refuse
copyrighted articles, he would have to refuse ALL articles. Or at least all
articles written in this part of the world.

 JS> or is it just a another play in an ongoing game? Is Michiel
 JS> that worried about someone seeing his articles that shouldn't? Who
 JS> cares? If an article is published it should be done so with the
 JS> forknowledge of how and to what extent it will be distributed. Trying
 JS> to force one's will on the editor and the distribution system is
 JS> wrong.

Tell that to Shannon who started the cruisade against the editor.

 JS>      It has been stated several times that I should chastise both
 JS> sides otherwise I am not impartial. To that I say that based on my
 JS> view of the situation. I have critisized Michiel

But you have said nothing to Shannon about his crusade amd his hayte campaigh
against Bjorn. You have said nothing to Dan about him terrirsing the echo with
flames to provokde the moderator. You have said nothing to Roy who posts fake
moderator messages. You have said nothing to Frank who spouts anti European
slogans every other post.

 JS> that he had for doing so. Would we even be having this argument if he
 JS> hadn't tried to force his copyright on Fidonet?

Would we be having this argument if Shannon and Dan and others woulkd not have
been trying for two years to get the editor to resign woith etheir smear and
hate campaigh an by terrorising the echo?

 JS> Shannon has done his share of pushing and name calling too. Which has
 JS> only served to prolong the conflict.

The conflict will not go away as long as they persist in trying to force Björn
to resign.

 JS>  I think both sides have taken this far beyond what the matter merits.

Tell that to Shannon and his gang who had dyndns drop Björn's account. Tell
that to Shannon who send lawyers down Björns back in an attempt to make him
conform to the US interpretation of copyright.

 JS>     Actually the person that I think is really to blame for this whole
 JS> copyright problem is Björn. If he as Fidonews editor had refused the
 JS> article based on the copyright and not on content.

So you want the editor to censor articles?

You know that is exactly what people oin Z1 have been accusing him of...

 JS> We wouldn't be having this problem now.

We would not be having this problem if there was not a hard headed core of Z1
participants that will not accept that different countries do things in
different ways. We would not be having this problems if that hard core of Z1
participants would have declined form being determined to get their way and try
to force the US way upon others.

You say Björn should have refused my article? Well, then I say maybe we would
not have this problem if *you* had not dug up that almost dead horse and
flogged it by sending in *your* article. You may not be aware of it because you
do not know the history, but *you* did open up some old wounds by submitting
that article. Why was it necessary to do that? Why not just let bygones be
bygones? Why did you have to dig it up again? Maybe Björn should have refused
your article in the interest of the greater good of not uneccessarily rocking
the boat....

I can hear the wolves cry "cesnsorship" already....

 JS> Do I think that Michiel's articles should be protected? Yes I do. But
 JS> that protection should not be used as a tool to force a particular
 JS> individuals will on Fidonet.

Tell that to Shannon. He was the one that made an issue out of copyrights.

Expose him as the hypocrite he is for sending lawyers to Björn over some
pictires of pretty ladies on his website but who refuse to honour the
copyrights of others himself.

 JS> the subject. That does mean that I have changed my opinion or
 JS> determination to see that Björn once again becomes an active moderator
 JS> here or that he or we (as in Fidonet) as a last resort find a
 JS> replacement.

And there is the bottom line. Replace Björn. Have a nice ride on the bandwagon.

What *I* think would be best for Fidonet and FidoNews is that everybody finally
accepts that different countries do things differently and that one can not
always get what one wants. The USA is not the centre of the world and US laws
and morals are not the morals of everyone in this world. I think it would be
best if everyone would simply accept that Björn is the FidoNews editor, that he
is the moderator of this echo and that he is the elected moderator of FN_SYSOP.
And accept that he does things different. The best for FidoNet would be if
everyone simply accepts that, stops the crusade, removes the hate pages from
their websites, stops provoking the moderator with fake moderator messages and
flames, simply follows his rules without argument and that the powers that be
stop protecting the worst offenders.

I think it would be best for Fide News and Fidonet if this campaign to have
Björn replaced was simply dropped.


Cheers, Michiel

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