Text 42272, 96 rader
Skriven 2006-11-05 12:11:15 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 42269 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Insults
===============
Hello Michiel.

05 Nov 06 16:18, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff!

 MV> On Sunday November 05 2006 06:02, you wrote to me:

 MV>>> Frank is misleading you. As usual. sigh... It was not the "mr" I
 MV>>> objected to, it was omitting the "van der" part in my surname.
 MV>>> My surname is "van der Vlist", not "Vlist". As I told Frank,
 MV>>> mutulating names that way is considered insulting here.

 JS>>      In all honesty Michiel. Given the situation that would
 JS>> necessitate the use of your last name I would have used Vlist
 JS>> also. Not to be insulting but because that is what I am used to
 JS>> doing here.

 MV> Let me remind you of what you wrote to me not so long ago:

 MV> === quote ===

 js>>      What country does the person live that you were responding
 js>> to? Seems to me that you would know how your statement would be
 js>> taken. When you communicate in an international forum such as
 js>> this one should try to take that into account when choosing their
 js>> words.

 MV> ===

 JS>> Here as you may know we have a first and last name. Often times
 JS>> we also have a middle name but it isn't usually used except for
 JS>> legal purposes and when one's mother is mad and is calling. <g>

 MV> === quote ===

 js>>     Since you chose to use the term it behoved you to consider
 js>> the meaning it would have by the people that your were
 js>> communicating with.

 MV> ===

 MV> My surname is "van der Vlist". Just like my father and my grandafter.
 MV> I inherited it from them.  It is not "Vlist" and "van der" is not my
 MV> middle name.

     And everyone is supposed to already know that how? People find out
by either asking first if they have the forsight to do so. Or, they do
as I would think most would do what they are used to doing until they
find out otherwise.

 MV> Surnames starting with "de", "der", "van", "van de" and "van der" are
 MV> quit common here and they are *always* used in full. It is only when
 MV> people want to insult or degrade someone that they ommit them. On the
 MV> rare occasions my mother called me "Vlist" I knew something nasty was
 MV> coming...

 JS>>  With me Jeff is short for Jeffery. I respond to both but
 JS>> normally use and prefer Jeff. I might insult you out of ignorance
 JS>> initially but would use your prefered surname once I was aware of
 JS>> your preference.

 MV> Then I trust that - contrary to Frank - in future you will use my
 MV> proper surname whe you feel the need to use it.


     Agreed.

 JS>> I can not speak for the intentions of anyone but myself. I will
 JS>> say though that we tend to use a certain amount of latitude here
 JS>> in the use of peoples names. Myself included with no insult
 JS>> necessarily intended. An example here would be the first name of
 JS>> James. Variations here that might be used would be Jim, Jimmy,
 JS>> Jimbo, Jimster, Etc without there having to  be an insult
 JS>> intended.

 MV> I think that is typically American. Over here we normally address the
 MV> people by the name they present themselves with. In FidoNet that would
 MV> be the name as in teh message header. The use of diminutives is for
 MV> adressing children. Used on adults it is insulting.

 MV> O, yes and using the surname in the second person without "mr". "mrs".
 MV> "miss" or a title is considered insulting as well. When I was young it
 MV> was used to address a subordinate or an employee, but that has gone
 MV> out of fashion and is no longer considered polite.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- FMail/Win32 1.60
 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - MN USA (1:14/0)