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Skriven 2006-11-06 04:43:35 av FidoNews Robot (2:2/2.0)
Ärende: FidoNews 23:45 [02/05]: General Articles
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                        GENERAL ARTICLES
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                To be or not to be a Flame echo
Jeff Smith 1:282/1031

    Why is it that the Fidonews echo is a home to flamers, name
calling, country bashing, needless sarcasm, and constant insults?
There are a number of possible reasons. The primary factor as I see it
is the lack of control from the moderator of the Fidonews echo. When
was the last time that the moderator spoke up in the echo to act as a
moderator? Has he acted in private to moderate the Fidonews echo? His
supporters say that he has sent them moderation netmails within the
last year or so. Although all of the "Flamers" and  "Troublemakers"
that I have asked. State that they have never received a moderation
netmail. So who are we to believe? I think the best indication is to
look at the current condition of the Fidonews echo and to make up your
own minds. I would think that the answer to that question though is
obvious.

   Why don't we see more Fidonews related messages in the Fidonews
echo?  With the type of behavior that is seen in the Fidonews echo on
a daily basis why would anyone want to bother when all they can expect
in return in the Fidonews echo would be  ridicule, name calling, and
personal attacks. When the Fidonews moderator himself expresses
discrimination of people in the Fidonews echo based on what country
they may come from, what religion they may believe in,  what political
views they may hold. How can one have any confidence that such a
person will act in an impartial and fair manner in the performance of
his duties as Fidonews moderator?

   Recently I have started to make small attempts at trying to talk to
people in the Fidonews echo to try to get them to curb their
participation of the flaming, name calling, and country bashing. Of
the first two people that I asked one explained his views and said
that he would curb the flames in the future. The other put me on his
twit list in the echo and also has filtered netmail coming from me.

  It should be noted that I have sent this person only one netmail on
the subject. This is the behavior and attitude of one of the people
supporting the current Fidonews echo moderator. As expected several
have refused to even consider the possibility that I might be trying
to act as impartial as I can. I have tried to avoid taking sides or
expressing my own personal opinion on what is being said or of those
doing the saying. I think that people are free and have the right to
form whatever opinion that they choose.

   So why can't the people in the Fidonews echo control themselves?
Partly because the moderator has made it clear that he doesn't care
and has even participated in the flaming, name calling, and country
bashing. His supporters have also stated that they don't see a problem
with the condition of the echo or understand why a change is thought
to be necessary. But those same supporters are the first to cry foul
when someone says something that they don't like. It is pretty obvious
the separate set of standards that exist in the Fidonews echo. One set
for the moderator and his supporters and another that everyone else is
expected to abide by.

    I have stated a number of times that the replacement of the
Fidonews moderator is what I would consider a last resort measure. It
would be much easier, cause much less trouble, and work if the current
moderator were to once again become an active moderator and work
toward bringing the echo back to a place where people would want to
discuss Fidonews topics. Instead of stopping by the echo to see who is
currently insulting who. But, sadly the moderator has not shown any
signs that he cares about the welfare of the Fidonews echo other than
maybe to remain a forum for him and his supporters to express their
personal, political, or religious views. That IMHO is not what the
Fidonews echo is for.

    I used to enjoy reading the Fidonews echo and at one time even
made the Fidonews available for viewing on my BBS. I don't bother
doing that any longer. For me the main reason is what is the point of
displaying an empty Fidonews? I used to read the Fidonews and enjoyed
reading articles by a variety of people.  I just feel that the value
and importance of Fidonews is suffering based in part by and because
of the current editor. I don't think that the current editor is the
sole cause for the lack of interest in Fidonews. In fairness to the
editor he can't publish articles that people do not submit. But I do
think that he is part of the reason of why people are no longer
interested in submitting articles. Other reasons are I think related
to the declining interest in Fidonet as a whole.

   I would like the Fidonews to once again be a place for people to go
to to read what's new about Fidonet. To read about new or upgraded
software. A place to read about tips and suggestions regarding BBS's
and mail movement. A place to go to read about joining Fidonet. A
place to go to for links to general software support as well as
Fidonet related web sites of interest. These are but just a few of the
things that I would like to see, or see more of in the Fidonews.

   Lets work towards doing what needs to be done to get the Fidonews
back to where people look forward to seeing what is in the next issue.
What we need are intelligent ideas on how to improve Fidonet as a
whole which will go along way toward rekindling interest in Fidonews.
Any ideas need to be free of agendas or political motivations.


Jeff Smith




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                        No Comment?
                        By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555


People complain that here is nothing to read in FidoNews any more.
People complain the FidoNews echo conference has degraded into a flame
and fight echo. People complain the editor is not doing his job. They
complain the moderator is not doing his job. They complain about
"noone" and everything.

Since the beginning of this year I have written six articles for the
Snooze. This will be my seventh and the year isn't over yet. I do not
know if anyone keeps stats, but I am confident that if there are
stats, I am in the top ten, if not the top three. That should entitle
me to throw in my two cents worth.

As we all know, or should know, the topic of the FidoNews echomail
conference is articles published recently in FidoNews. Ok, there have
been empty issues. Nothing new, we had empty issues in the days of
Donald Tees and Sylvia Maxwell. With the decline of FidoNet, we should
not be surprised that we see a few more empty issues these days. In
fact, if the decline of FidoNews were to take the same pace as the
decline of FidoNet as a whole, it should be even thinner than it is
now.

Given that, one would expect the complainers to take every opportunity
to post something on-topic in the FidoNews echo by responding to
articles. Yet, the six articles I submitted until now this year, have
only triggered ONE comment on their content and that single comment
was limited to "What's it got to do with FidoNet?". That was about my
article regarding a Dutch ISP discontinuing their free e-mail service.
O yes, and there was a fuss about a copyright notice that I attached
to my latest articles. I thought that f.e. my series of articles about
the FON movement would be of interest to the readers and not just be
filler. Apparently the readers thought otherwise. Apparently the
readers just do a quick scan, skip over the body of the articles and
their eyes get stuck at the bottom. That seems to be how the Snooze is
"read" these days.

Why do people waste their time complaining about the flames in the
echo instead of making constructive contributions? Moreover, it seems
that some of the loudest complainers are also the worst flamers. If
people do not like to be flamed, why do they not simply stop flaming
themselves? If people want to be moderated, why do they not start by
moderating themselves? If people want the FidoNews echo back "in
shape" why do they clutter it up with off-topic posts about the
moderator or the editor not doing his job? Don't they realise that by
doing that they have become part of the problem instead of the
solution?

Why do people need a moderator to be visible as such in the area? What
is wrong with moderators who moderate by netmail only? For some people
this seems to be a problem. Some even go as far as to deliberately
flame in order to provoke the moderator into doing some visible
moderation. Don't they realize that this line of conduct is
counterproductive? A moderator responding to their wishes would do the
echomail equivalent of giving terrorists what they want.

And then there are those whose present themselves as "reasonable" and
"impartial" but who reveal their true colours by demanding the same as
the terrorists: that the moderator either does his job the way they
want it done or that the moderator is replaced by someone who does. I
have compared these "reasonables" to Jehova's Witnesses. They are
polite, they do not use violence and they sound very reasonable at
first. But they just talk en never listen and they won't take no for
an answer. They are very persistent and their goal is to make you
submit to their beliefs and nothing less. This approach of course is
as counter productive as the terrorist approach. The only way to deal
with Jehova's Witnesses is to just politely say "not interested" and
close the door before they can get a word in edgewise. The longer you
listen to them, the harder it is to get rid of them.

So what is the proper approach then? Behave the way you would behave
when the moderator did his job according to your wishes! An invisible
moderator is not an absent moderator and some prefer to moderate by
netmail only. Can't live with that?: vote with your feet and start
your own echo.

In the meantime: how about some comment on my previous articles?



(C) 2006, Michiel van der Vlist. All rights reserved. Permission to
distribute via the FdioNews file echo and the FidoNews echomail
conference.



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