Text 42547, 229 rader
Skriven 2006-11-12 18:19:00 av bob klahn (1:275/311)
     Kommentar till en text av shannon talley
Ärende: Insults
===============
 st> Hi Bob,

 st> It's ashamed one can't have a civil conversation with you
 st> without you becoming insulting.

 It's a shame that one can't have a civil conversation with a
 conservative without it becoming insulting to an ally who has
 backed us far more than we have backed them.

>> You really don't know much about what's happening over there, do
>> you? Aside from the fact that the French have consistently

 st> Actually Bob, I've been to many middle eastern countries,
 st> spent time there, talked with the locals, stayed in local
 st> houses & visited communities on 'outskirts'.  Afghanistan,
 st> Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, and more moderate ME countries too.

 Then why don't you know that the French are backing us in
 Afghanistan? Why don't you know that the French didn't owe us
 one bit of support in Iraq?

 st> Can you honestly say that you've spent time over there Bob?

 Which has what to do with your commentary on the French? And how
 many terrorists did you meet in Iraq?

 st>  And you call "me" misinformed....?

 It appears so. You have traveled in Middle Eastern Muslim
 countries, and fail to distinguish between them and the majority
 of the Islamic world. You didn't say Arabs, you said Muslims.

 st>  Take a trip over
 st>  there Bob.  Interview people, study the communities,
 st>  travel to other countries, and when you are done, come
 st>  back and communicate with me so you can finally have an
 st>  informed conversation.

 If *YOUR* conversation is informed, tell me where my facts and
 figures are wrong. You want to claim superior knowledge, but
 can't show where I am wrong.

 st> The remark about the French was a joke regarding their
 st> acceptance of the Nazi's during WWII, but I guess that joke
 st> was a little over your head, sorry...

 The part you left out makes it hard to see it as a commentary on
 WW2.

 **************************************************************************
 st>    but should the liberals propose we do like the
 st> French and offer them a table setting for 1.3 billion?
 **************************************************************************

>> And you appear not to be well informed on Islam. There are about
>> 1 billion muslims in this world. I believe your 1.3 bill is a
>> bit high. The great majority of them are not Arabs, and Arab

 st> The numbers vary greatly from 900 million to 1.5 billion
 st> depending on the source.  I opted for 1.3 -- sorry you
 st> disagreed -- but since there is no actual definitive

 I don't know where you get your numbers, I use the ones from the
 Statistical Abstract of the United States, Comparative
 International statistics section.

 st> number, I wasn't wrong.  I guess when so much of my post
 st> was factually sound, you had to pick apart something.

 I picked apart most of what you said.

 And:

 What part of your post was factually sound? The part where you
 make comments that would probably be true if applied to any
 general group? There are Christian extremists who want to bring
 down our government. Look into Christian Identity. Look into the
 Aryan Nation. You painted an entire religion with the brush
 that covered the worst of the group. And you did it with no
 distinction between Arabs, Asians, or Sub Saharan Africans.

>> Saudis, mostly. Saudi Arabia is the home of the most extreme
>> Islam. Yet they are Bush's buddies. Try going there and
>> practicing your evangelicism.

 st> Funny how you make fun of my religion isn't it?  That's not

 How is it making fun of your religion? Oh, and you didn't state
 your specific religion. You just said Christian. Is that generic
 Christian? There are evangelical Catholics, but challenging
 their evangelicism to face Saudi oppression is not making fun of
 their religion, Catholicism, which happens to be mine also. It's
 not even making fun of their evangelicism, it's challenging
 their right wing political bent. Please don't use your religion
 as a cover for Neocon politics.

 st> very liberal of you.  Iran & Syria house the most extreme
 st> versions of Islam,

 Iran is Shia, Syria is Sunni. Those are the largest sects of
 Islam, I do believe. Wahabi is more extreme from everything I
 have read on the subject. Iran is an extreme nation, but that
 isn't because it's Shia, but because they have been subject to
 half a century of rule by tyrants. Same for Syria.

 st> but you aren't incorrect in stating that
 st> Saudi also does.  This "radical" Islam is being taught in
 st> ALL Muslim countries now, including some countries in South
 st> America.

  It's being taught in Europe and the US now. And the Madrassas
  are financed by Saudi Arabia. The Vatican is calling for
  reciprocity with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis financed a large
  Mosque in Rome, but the Catholic Church can't even build a
  chapel in Saudi Arabia, or even hold services in private homes.

 st> It's obvious you don't like Bush, so whoever his friends
 st> are become your enemies.  Making friends with the Saudi's
 st> isn't such a bad thing is it?  I mean -- they are a

 Making friends with any decent person is not a bad thing.
 However, in Iraq Christians had churches and openly held
 services under Saddam. In Saudi Arabia our troops were
 forbidden to display a bible in public. Now, as an Evangelical
 Christian, which was a better friend? Before Bush the Catholic
 Bishops in Iraq were able to travel to the Vatican to meet with
 the pope with no problems. Under the house of Saud the Catholic
 Bishops are not even publically known. If there are any.

 st> weighing member of OPEC (to put it lightly).  And -- you
 st> probably don't like or care for our sources of oil either
 st> (judging from your liberal tone).

 You have to put a label on every position, don't you? Well,
 guess what... the position you identify with me was part of the
 Neocon agenda in the invasion of Iraq. They intended to
 privatize the Iraqi oil industry and open it up to drive down
 the price of oil and break the Saudi stranglehold on OPEC.

 And your support for the Saudis is far more socialistic than I
 would ever be. Saudi Arabia is about as socialist a country as
 you can find in this world.

 st> Then -- thank god you
 st> aren't president Bob... You'd probably cut off our oil
 st> supply, send this country into inflation overdrive,

 Not even necessary. Iraq and Venezuela have enough oil to make
 up for the Saudis, just take some time to develop it. Dig the
 locals out of their poverty at the same time.

 st> increase our interest rates to 90%, and then we'd all be in

 Bush is working up to that.

 st> a new depression worse than what it was back in the 1930's.

 Damn you like to create fiction. The new depression will be due
 to republican policies of the last 25 years. Bush running us
 into debt, with Reagan selling the country off, that will do it.

 st>  Millions would die of starvation, poverty, lack of medical
 st>  treatment, and -- well -- you'd be happy because you were
 st>  taking a stand against OPEC...

 God you love extremism. Actually, none of that would have to
 happen under your worst case scenario. Just renounce the
 national debt, and repatriate US industry, by strict import
 limitations if necessary, and we are back in business. It will
 be hard, but done within a generation. Oh, a few more
 adjustments, but that's the main thrust.

>> Don't complain about the French not backing us when the whole

 st> Again -- that joke was over your head. It was regarding
 st> their acceptance of the Nazi occupation in WWII.

 1.3 billion Nazis? Another botched joke?

 And why shouldn't I be tired of bashing an ally who has backed
 us more than we have backed them?

 st> Regarding your "Radical Christianity" -- THAT is something
 st> completely made up by the "Liberal Press".

 The liberal press is a myth completely made up by the
 conservative spin meisters.

 Look up christian identity, aryan nation, even Jerry Falwell and
 Pat Robertson.

 st>    It's not PC to
 st> be Christian anymore Bob, haven't you noticed?

 PC is a term used by conservatives to avoid reasoned discussion.

 st>    By claiming
 st> there is a movement of "Radical Christians ready to War
 st> with the World who isn't Christian" is pure nonsense.  The

 Read Ann Coulter. Then read up on her followers.

 st> evangelical movement is about as radical as it gets Bob.

 The evangelical movement is a bunch of teddy bears compared to
 the religious right.

 st> Although, there are individuals with different ideas about
 st> religion, there are also individuals who kill their
 st> neighbors, commit suicide, malcontents regardless of the

 Yeah, some of them stockpile weapons, send envelopes full of
 anthrax to democrats and so called liberal media
 representatives, and some openly call for killing the leaders of
 Islamic nations.

 st> society.   Bob, you can't point at a malcontent and call
 st> him a "radical Christian movement" -- that's just yellow
 st> sensationalism.

 You can't point at a minority of Muslims and call Islam a
 radical religion. That's just bigotry.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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