Text 42712, 282 rader
Skriven 2006-11-18 09:54:22 av Gregory J. Deyss (1:267/150)
Kommentar till text 42698 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
Ärende: The real facts
======================
RC> Hello mark!
RC> 17 Nov 06 05:36, you wrote to me:
RC>>> So you are saying that Ford, Chrysler, GM with their unionized
RC>>> help can compete with the non-union competition, such as but not
RC>>> limited to the Japanese and Korean brands?
One of the reasons as to why Ford and GM are hurting so much is because of
benefits that they are paying out, they are spending money for workers who no
longer work for the automakers. This drives up the cost and makes it hard to
compete with a forgien automarkers who do not have these expenditures.
Another reason why Ford is hurting is because of there takeover of Volvo, and
Jaguar. It would be within their best interests if they sold these to someone
else and stick to making Ford/Mercury/Lincoln. or Perhaps kill the line of
Mercury and just produce Ford and Lincoln automobiles. Like GM killed the
oldsmobile line.
- Greg
this cost of the viechle is then higher that the forgien counterparts. Japan
has a nation covers these benefits, so these the automakers do not have to deal
with these
ml>> no... i don't really like unions, either... in many cases, they have
ml>> contributed to costs going up more than is necessary which has lead to
ml>> those products being priced out of range of folk who used to be able
ml>> to purchase them...
RC> This was at the crux of my original point, unions cause
RC> labor costs to go up, often exhorbitantly and these costs
RC> get integrated into the costs of the products and
RC> services that get produced. Its no wonder why foreign
RC> based auto makers have been able to put such a hurting on
RC> Detroit.
RC> Heh, wait til China starts exporting cars, and they are
RC> prepping to do so.
ml>>> it is all about the benjamins... nothing more and nothing less...
RC>>> Business has always been about making money.
ml>> no... greedy business has always been about making money and recording
ml>> higher and higher earnings in each reporting period... there's only so
ml>> much money to go around!
RC> Everywhere I have worked has been about increasing your
RC> numbers from prior milestones.
RC> Business wont survive if they try to cap their numbers,
RC> even the mom and pop ones.
ml>> many businesses that i know of are in business to provide a needed
ml>> service and make _some_ money... take a mom'n'pop grocery store, for
ml>> instance... many of them are in place to serve the local neighborhood
ml>> so that everyone doesn't have to drive miles to get groceries and
ml>> other needed products... sure, they want to do more than break even
ml>> and i have no problem with that...
RC> and they still want to break last years numbers.
RC> At which point do you want them to stop these
RC> aspirations?
ml>> however, when you look at
ml>> companies, like walmart and lowes hardware for instance, that mark
ml>> products up 100% or more, that is just plain wrong... that's like you
ml>> purchasing the components to build a complete computer and setting the
ml>> sales price at double the cost (100% markup)... well, guess what...
ml>> you won't be selling many computers at that price... either that or
ml>> you'll start using lowend components in an effort to get the price
ml>> down for your target buyers...
RC> You should see the markup on USB data cables, yet
RC> everyones prices are in line with each other. Markup on
RC> complete computer equipment, printers and peripherals is
RC> virtually non-existant, heck what little profit you made
RC> is exhausted by the time you factor in the costs to
RC> transport it to the store and to stock it on the shelf.
RC> This pricing structure is evident in the grocery business
RC> to, there isnt much markup on meat, dairy and produce,
RC> they make up for it in the grocery dept.
RC> Do you even know what the cost of doing business is? Why
RC> are you bemoaning what you think is highway robbery
RC> markup?
RC> A Big Box store has to:
RC> * Pay Rent (commercial lease prices arent on par with
RC> residential)
RC> * If they own the property they sit on, then you have
RC> property taxes, which are far more exhorbitant on
RC> commercial real estate than on residential. Then there is
RC> maintenance costs.
RC> * Pay the costs to insure their business and operations
RC> comply with local, state and federal regulations.
RC> * Pay utilities, I am sure you can envision the
RC> electricity usage alone?
RC> * Insurance for building, assets and liability
RC> * PAYROLL
RC> * Cost of goods.
RC> * Cost of Fixtures, equipment and maintenance of same.
RC> * Advertising.
RC> I dont think you knew this.
ml>>> how many companies/corporations do you truely see taking care of
ml>>> their workforce with all the benefits and such bestowed on them
ml>>> by the republicans? i see none... what i see is them shoveling
ml>>> below federal poverty level wages and not caring one iota because
ml>>> there's always another potential employee out there that is
ml>>> willing to settle for less than poverty existance :(
RC> Lets socialize everything Mark, it sounds like what you
RC> want?
RC>>> Whats a fair wage?
ml>> i'd say that a fair wage is a wage that at least allows someone to
ml>> live above the federal poverty level... how that wage fits in with the
ml>> cost of living in their locale is another matter altogether...
RC> exactly, so if you raise the minimums across the board,
RC> you could adversely affect those businesses in low income
RC> areas whom already have a slim operating margin as it is.
RC> The wolf will eat itself starting with its tail.
RC>>> I am told a wage that is twice or 2.5 times the existing minimum
RC>>> wage isnt enough?
ml>> well, can you live on $300 a week before taxes?? that's 7.50/hr @
ml>> 40hrs/wk... in this area, that's the starting wage for many
ml>> companies... at 50 working weeks a year, that's $15000 before taxes
ml>> are taken out... say 20% is taken out and that leaves you with $12000
ml>> to play with... so, can you?
RC> The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage, its
RC> a entry level wage, and if you want to take this entry
RC> level wage and turn it into a living wage, then you
RC> remove the incentives for people to go out and get a
RC> skill or education.
RC> I work in retail and have done so for over 26 years, I am
RC> paid quite well in retail because of my experience,
RC> should someone with no or nothing near my experience
RC> level make the same as I?
RC>>> Labor costs is exactly why outsourcing occurs, do you want to
RC>>> make it worse?
ml>> no, that is wrong... it isn't just labor costs... there is also the
ml>> cost of paying the shareholders and the federal government hasn't
ml>> helped that, either... in fact, thay've made it worse with their 401k
ml>> stuff which forces folk to gamble their retirement funds on the
ml>> stockmarket... and that's exactly what that is... gambling...
RC> Paying the shareholders, they are the investors you know,
RC> they do deserve a return on their investment. Whats the
RC> point of having shares otherwise?
RC> and for the record, privately held companies pursue
RC> profits and higher profits too, so dont save your scorn
RC> only for Wall Street..
RC>>> They already are experimenting with self service checkout and
RC>>> ordering at fast food restaurants. Many stores have adopted self
RC>>> serve checkouts, bye bye cashiers.
ml>> and thus no jobs for those people to work at... so what do they do
ml>> now? how can they support themselves and contribute back to their
ml>> neighborhood? become crack dealers and prostitutes?? riight...
RC> Victims of technology.. How many lost their jobs to
RC> robots in assembly lines, textile mills and the like, you
RC> aint bemoaning that.
RC> How many pencil pushing accountants lost their jobs to a
RC> computer loaded with Quickbooks?
RC> How many messenger services lost jobs to the fax machine
RC> and of course email?
RC> A businesses largest and most controllable expense is
RC> "labor".
RC> You going to bemoan automation next?
RC> Here is some perspective for you, you live on a sizeable
RC> piece of property, your lifestyle is such that you cant
RC> devote much time to raking the leaves and cutting the
RC> lawn, so you pay a neighborhood boy to do it, you budget
RC> for that and the occasional babysitter. Could you afford
RC> to add additional neighborhood boys to do this for you in
RC> the name of feeling good?
ml>>> i made the statement, somewhere, before, that the republicans
ml>>> were for business and that the democratics are for the people...
RC>>> Well ok, let them be for the people until they vanquish business,
RC>>> then where will you be?
ml>> no, that's going to the opposite extreme... it never fails to cause me
ml>> wonder wny folk have to jump from one extreme to the other in their
ml>> efforts to make their points... yes, i've done it, too... anyway, it
ml>> is the middle line that is where we should be... folk making a living
ml>> and affording the products their company produces (for one thing) and
ml>> companies making enough to cover their expenses and make a little
ml>> profit for future needs...
RC> So you favor some artificial cap being imposed on what
RC> they can earn?
RC> On what would you based the profit dollars one would need
RC> for the future?
RC>>> Didnt you start truck driving, who created the need for you to
RC>>> drive that truck?
ml>> i went to school and got my class a cdl, yes... the need will always
ml>> be there... someone has to drive the trucks... that won't ever stop...
RC> as long as there is a need for goods to be transported,
RC> the question will always be how many trucks are needed.
RC> Do away with Walmart and quite a few truckers would be
RC> idled.
RC> Companies like Swift and JB Hunt employed quite a few
RC> truckers to service the Walmart account, now think about
RC> it.. :)
RC>>> Blindly mandating wage levels to overcome a income level
RC>>> designation wont work either.
ml>> i never said anything about blindly doing anything... that's just as
ml>> stupid as the existing situation and circumstances...
RC> Ok, then put forth your plan, instead of just saying
RC> something should be done, make sure your plan doesnt
RC> penalize business else the wolf will eat itself.
RC>>> You are better off investing in education.
ml>> investing with what?!!? if one doesn't have anything to invest with,
ml>> how is one supposed to invest in anything?? do not suggest loans and
ml>> credit... that's another trap on the unsuspecting and one that only
RC> Investing in education by making it more readily
RC> accesible and affordable, as well as making the K-12 one
RC> more efficient. If people have a skill they can sell,
RC> they can make more.
RC> I dont think the public education offered now compares
RC> with the quality of the one I received and when I was in,
RC> you didnt need as many credits to graduate, go figger?
RC> ==
RC> Ross
RC> Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader!
RC> http://www.easternstar.info
RC> Portal To My Personal Blogs And A Discussion Forum:
RC> http://www.cassell.us
RC> Email: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com
RC> ... You do not strengthen the weak by weakening the
RC> strong.
RC> --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-30413
RC> * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA
RC> (1:123/456)
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