Text 42916, 90 rader
Skriven 2006-11-20 10:14:44 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
  Kommentar till text 42885 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Ärende: JFK on Hitler
=====================
Hello Dale!

19 Nov 06 23:44, you wrote to me:

 RC>> Because if you want to look at it from a partisan slant, IKE sent
 RC>> over

 DS>    I don't look at it that way -- but it seems that others do.

 RC>> advisers, their job was to help the South Vietnamese train
 RC>> and upgrade their military so they could better defend
 RC>> themselves. That in itself was not the vietnam war.

 DS>    But it was the beginning of the involvement -- one of my
 DS>    instructors at college had already had a tour there -- and Ike was
 DS>    still President then.

But they werent combat troops, and while I am sure they had authority to defend
themselves, they werent over there to do combat.

 RC>> [Involvement Meter]

 RC>> GOP = 1 DEM = 0

 RC>> JFK sent over even more advisers and he also authorized the
 RC>> assasination of the South Vietnamese President.

 RC>> [Involvement Meter]

 DS>    Yep -- and the build up was in full swing in 1962 after JFK took
 DS>    office.

Note "build up".

 RC>> Yeah you can blame Ike for getting us involved, but he
 RC>> didnt send over bombers or troops to fight for them, he
 RC>> sent over people to get them in a better position to fight
 RC>> for themselves. He did nothing more than the play the same
 RC>> moves in the chess match of the cold war, you forget that
 RC>> the USSR had military advisers all over timbuktu in nations
 RC>> unfriendly to the west, including North Vietnam, North
 RC>> Korea et al. They moved we countered, we moved they
 RC>> countered.

 DS>    Yep -- I lived through that cold war for many decades.

 RC>> LBJ pulled the fuggin trigger.

 DS>    Actually, I would say that Ike cocked the pistol,

No, I think that distinction is with JFK.

Ike did the most minimal thing in the cold war chess match, his intentions were
not to have the USA fight this war for them.

 DS> LBJ pulled out the artillery

Yes, he got the war powers act, he sent in the combat troops.

 DS> and Nixon negotiated the surrender / withdrawal from the mess he had
 DS> inherited.

and do note Janis's earlier musing that infers he was at fault.

Nixon was guilty of wanting to withdraw from that war with a position of
strength.

People look at the Vietnam War from a partisan perspective because of the
correlations they make to the present. The Iraq war was launched with suspect
intel(wmd), so was Vietnam(Tonkin).

The Tonkin incident gave LBJ and the Presidents that followed those dreaded war
powers.

Ike didnt involve us to fight that war, he involved us to help /them/ fight
that war for themselves.

LBJ takes all the credit for the war as we know it.

You cant assign blame to Ike on any level because in reality, JFK or LBJ also
had the option to withdraw those advisers, but they didnt.

==
Ross
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