Text 43643, 157 rader
Skriven 2006-12-03 22:27:06 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 43633 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:2/2.0)
Ärende: FidoNews 23:49 [02/04]: General Articles
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Hello Michiel.

04 Dec 06 02:24, FidoNews Robot wrote to all:

Mvdv> Every once in a while I peruse the nodelist and I find an
Mvdv> anomaly. Something like this:

Mvdv> Region,64,Pacific_Islands_Regional_Coordinator,PHILIPPINES,
Mvdv> Terry_Roati,000-0-0-0-0,300,XR

Mvdv> Or this one:

Mvdv> Host,654,Shanghai_Net,Shanghai,Bin_Li,000-0-0-0-0,300,XA

Mvdv> Notice anything odd about these entries? In case you don't see it,
Mvdv> try to have your mailer make contact with them. It will fail for
Mvdv> obvious reasons; there is no contact information. No valid telephone
Mvdv> number,no IP address, no domain name. Nothing. These nodes are
Mvdv> unreachable.


      I can't disagree with you there.

Mvdv> Now if they were leaf nodes this may just be acceptable if they were
Mvdv> listed with the Pvt keyword, but this is a Host and an RC. How can a
Mvdv> host fulfil his obligation of receiving incoming mail for the nodes
Mvdv> in his net if he himself has less reachability than a point? A point
Mvdv> at least can be reached through his boss node, but a host listed
Mvdv> without contact information is flat out unreachable.

Mvdv> What I find most odd is that when I vent my concerns about this
Mvdv> development, the only reactions I get are of the type: "why does it
Mvdv> concern you so much?" Or: "it is none of your bussiness, it is not in
Mvdv> your net, not even in your zone!"

      Yes Michiel, that IS the question. It would be like me telling Ward
how to run zone 2. I may have an opinion but it is not my place to tell
Ward how to run his zone. Just as it isn't your place to tell Carol how
she should run Z6.

Mvdv> Why does it concern me so much? I think that is the wrong question. A
Mvdv> more to the point question is "why do I seem to be the only one who
Mvdv> is concerned about this?" FidoNet does not stop at the end of my net.
Mvdv> It does not stop at the end of my region and it does not stop at the
Mvdv> end of my zone. FidoNet is a global newtwork defined by the nodelist.

     Funny you should say that Michiel. Were not you saying just the opposite
when you were telling people that they should not be saying how things should
be run in Z2? Seems that the rules of the game change when you are the one
telling others how they should do things. You were telling us how Z2 does
things their way and it is wrong for those in other zones to tell Z2 how they
should do things. Why not practice what you preach? Looks to be a prime example
of one set of standards that you expect others to follow and a seperate set
of standards for yourself and your friends. And you wonder why people have such
a problem with you.



Mvdv> The nodelist is build from the bottom up: hub segments, net segments,
Mvdv> region segments, zone segments and finally the international
Mvdv> nodelist.
Mvdv> We do not limit the distribution of the segments to our own net,
Mvdv> region, or zone, no we distribute a global nodelist to every node
Mvdv> in
Mvdv> the network. The argument "it is none of your business, it is not in
Mvdv> your net/region/zone" is a bogus argument. If there is garbage in the
Mvdv> nodelist it affects everyone who uses the nodelist. I.e every sysop
Mvdv> and pointop in FidoNet.

     It's only bogus because you want it to be. Makes it easier if you can
deny and say and act as you please. Bottom line is that it isn't for you
to say how Carol should run Z6. Regardless of the current condition or node
count of the zone.


Mvdv> FidoNet is on the decline, that is a fact. People leave because
Mvdv> they lose interest, they find shinier toys to play with and sadly
Mvdv> enough some leave feet first. There is little or nothing we can do
Mvdv> about that. But what we still CAN do something about, is keeping the
Mvdv> nodelist in sync with reality. What we CAN do something about is
Mvdv> keeping the garbage out of the nodelist.

     The 'garbage' as you call it in the nodelist is the least of the
troubles  causing the decline in Fidonet. Why not help in other ways
to inspire more interest in Fidonet? I have asked you several times to
help work toward solutions. You have refused as the suggestions made to
you didn't fit into your idea of how things should be done. You have a
nifty way of working with people there Michiel.

     Is there 'garbage' in the nodelist? Sure there is. I would imagine
that each zone has it's share. Is this a recent problem? The nodelist
has had a degree of 'garbage' in it for as long as I can remember. Why
suddenly has it become your new cause? Is it because you saw something that
you didn't like and you were basically told that it wasn't your affair and
to bud out. That is I think the REAL issue here.


Mvdv> If the system of a host or NC is no longer running a FidoNet
Mvdv> compatible mailer for receiving mail, that system can no longer
Mvdv> function as a host for the net and should be replaced. If a
Mvdv> suitable replacement can not be found within the net, the net can no
Mvdv> longer function as a net and it should be resolved. Any remaining
Mvdv> functional nodes should be listed as independents in the region,
Mvdv> relocated in a neighbouring net - if need be by expanding the
Mvdv> geographical bounderies of that neighbouring net or continue to
Mvdv> participate by operating as a point under whatever uplink they get
Mvdv> their mail from.


Mvdv> If the system of a region coordinator no longer runs a FidoNet
Mvdv> compatible mailer for receiving mail, that RC can no longer perform
Mvdv> his duties and should be replaced. If a suitable replacement can not
Mvdv> be found within the region, that region should be dissolved and the
Mvdv> remaining nets/nodes should be relocated to a neighbouring region or
Mvdv> neighbouring regions, if need be by expanding the geographic
Mvdv> bounderies of those neighbouring regions.

Mvdv> And of course the same goes on the zone level. If a zone becomes too
Mvdv> small, has to few participants to fill the *C positions and keep up
Mvdv> the net/region/zone hierarchy in any meaningful way so it no longer
Mvdv> functions as a zone, it should be dissolved and the remaining nodes
Mvdv> be relocated to a neighbouring zone or zones.

     Ironically I don't disagree with some of what you are saying. And
when you become ZC you can run the zone just as you have outlined. In
the meantime it might be better to work with people instead of telling
them how they should be running things.


Mvdv> In some cases this may go smooth and almost spontaneously - as in
Mvdv> the case of R2:28 - and in some cases it will take more drastic
Mvdv> measures than self regulation to achieve the goal. But if we fail to
Mvdv> take these measures, we will continue to see the nodelist decompose
Mvdv> into a list of unreachable nodes with no structure and full of dead
Mvdv> wood. A clean and up to date nodelist is in the interest of everyone
Mvdv> who makes use of it. Why am I the only one who seems concerned about
Mvdv> its decomposition?

     I think those in a position to control their part of the nodelist are
concerned about deadwood and are working toward reducing it. I also think
that you have a found a new cause to complain about. A cause that has been
there for years but NOW is a problem.


Mvdv> (c) 2006, Michiel van der Vlist. All rights reserved. Permission
Mvdv> to distribute via the FdioNews file echo and the FidoNews echomail
Mvdv> conference.

     Like anyone cares about your silly copyright. A copyright that YOU
have made foolish pointless.



Jeff

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