Text 44032, 115 rader
Skriven 2006-12-13 09:41:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555.1)
  Kommentar till text 43877 av bob klahn (1:275/311)
Ärende: Insults
===============
Hello bob.

09 Dec 06 18:55, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>>>>>> must always be shown in context to know what they mean. The
 MvdV>>>>>> N word was merely used as an example to clearify a point.
 MvdV>>>>>> That is no more racism than you quoting the N word.

 bk>>>  It also should not be used, even in that context.

 MvdV>> Maybe, maybe not.

 bk>  Not. I know you don't live in this country, so you have not grown up
 bk> in this culture. But that word is offensive in any context.

*Any* context? Hmmm....

So how do you tell your children not to use it? When you can not even use it to
tell them what word you are referring to?

 bk>>> It is not clear in that case if it is or is not intended to be
 bk>>> racist.

 MvdV>> There is always the option of giving the writer the
 MvdV>> benefit of the doubt. These things are bound to happen
 MvdV>> when one interacts across a culture and a language
 MvdV>> barrier.

 bk>  True, which is why I do not call you a racist.

Eh? I am puzzled why you would even consider that.

 bk> However, there is also a responsibility for those who do not live in
 bk> the subject culture to accept the advice of those who do on matters of
 bk> that culture.

Accept yes. Live up to it ....  maybe.

 bk>  That word is always offensive.

I have some difficulty accepting that. I can accept that it is always offending
to *you*. Maybe even to everyone in your subculture. But always for everyone in
the US culture? Hmmm... no, you willjave to give me a bit more that just your
say so.

 MVDV>> What is politically incorrect in one part of the
 MvdV>> world is often quit acceptable in another part of the
 MvdV>> world and only by interacting with another culture can one
 MvdV>> learn these intracacies. Mistakes are bound to happen and
 MvdV>> a language barrier does not help.

 bk>  The N-word is never acceptable in this country, and I doubt it
 bk>  is in any other country. None that I know of.

Then you do not know all that much about other countries. It certainly is not
offensive in *any* context here. It mostly is, but not always.

 bk>  The phrase, "Politically incorrect" is offensive,

Now I am even more puzzled...

 bk>  IMO, because it covers up the fact that some things are more than
 bk> incorrect, they are clearly hurtful and offensive. Some things really
 bk> are wrong.

You are wrong. It depends on culture. What is wrong in one culture can be
perfectly all right in another. There is no absolute right or wrong.

 MvdV>> In this particular case, it was not addressed to anyone.
 MvdV>> Those who have too long toes are bound to get stepped on
 MvdV>> when interacting across a cultural barrier and I say a
 MvdV>> single instance of the use of a "forbidden" word should
 MvdV>> not be a reason to label someone a racist and start a
 MvdV>> crusade that lasts for over two years.

 bk>  Absolutely true. Now, accept that the word is truly offensive.

I can go as far as to acceptt that it is truly offensive to *yo*.

 MvdV>> The word was used ONCE, the writer explained that he did not intend
 MvdV>> it in a racial way and he did not repeat its use. And that is
 MvdV>> where it should have ended.

 bk>  Absolutely true.


 bk>>>  Which is not illegal.

 MvdV>> Didn't say it was. Just a warming up for the observation
 MvdV>> that in some cultures is not politically correct to *have*
 MvdV>> a cleaning lady. Mexican or otherwise. In those cultures
 MvdV>> someone employing a cleaning lady would be labelled a
 MvdV>> feodalist.

 bk>  Which would also miscarry, as it is not relevant to our culture.

But is is relevant to ours...

 bk>  Though I would not have one. (I can't afford one.)

Not many people can. If you think about it, you will realise that there can
never be a situation where the majority of the people can afford a cleaning
lady, let alone that everyone can have one.

As long as there are cleaning ladies, society will be divided into people that
can afford one and people that have no choice bit to be one...

The phenomenum of cleaning ladies emphesises unequality in society and that is
offensive to some in some cultures. Therefore bragging about having a cleaning
lady is a no-no in those cultures.

Michiel

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