Text 44190, 147 rader
Skriven 2006-12-19 11:50:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 44184 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
Ärende: Your Fidonews Website
=============================
Hello Jeff!

On Monday December 18 2006 20:47, you wrote to me:

 MV>> Which I should narrow down to "giving up on attempting to
 MV>> moderate those who refuse to be moderated". He has not giving up
 MV>> all together, he is still moderating.

 JS>      Several of those same people have stated that they would accept
 JS> being moderated by someone that they respect.

And the lion will lay next to the lamb. Yeah right...

Jeff you are naive. Can't you see that this is an empty promise? Can't you see
that by going along with it, you give everyone the perfect excuse to ignore
every future moderator of this and every other echo in FidoNet? All the user
has to say is "I do not respect this moderator" and he/she is excused.

 MV>>>> Giving up <> not caring any more.

 JS>>>      Giving up BECAUSE of not caring anymore.

 MV>> No, you are putting words into his mouth. My interpretation of
 MV>> his words is that he gave up on the impossible.

 JS>      Semantics Michiel. The end result is the same.

But the blame is laid somewhere else...

A cultural difference pops up. Many Americans would rather die than admit
something is impossible. They maintain that failure is due to not trying hard
enough, not putting enough effort/money in it, etc etc. Europeans take a nmore
pragmatic approach. They accept not everything is possible and when confronted
with the impossible, they redirect their efforts to those things that are
within reach.

 MV>>>> FidoNews echo <> FidoNews megazine.

 JS>>>      Bjorn is the link here. He is responsible for both.

 MV>> Point is that he has not given up on the FidoNews magazine, as
 MV>> your words suggested.

 JS>      Then maybe the situation is even worse than was thought.

That negative attitude is going to bite you in the back some day. You seem to
be determined to see something negative in everything that the currect FidoNews
editor does or doesn't. IOW you are demonising him.

 JS>>> There was no specification made on the webpage that Bjorn had no
 JS>>> control or input regarding it's contents.

 MV>> An omission that goes on the tab of Jim Barchuk. *He* is the one
 MV>> that maintained the website.

 JS>      Considering the "Current" information available from that website
 JS> is from 2003. I think "MaintainED" is indeed the operative term.

Yes, that is what I wrote.

 MV>> I see that fidonews.info is still free. I could register that -
 MV>> like you registered fidonews.net - and put up a web site where I
 MV>> say that you, Jeff Smith, are a contact for that web site. Does
 MV>> that make you responsible for its content?

 JS>      I would be responsilble for straightening you out and having you
 JS> remove my name.

Nonsense. When *I* put something on my website it is *my* responsibility and my
responsibility alone. If I were to put something about you on my website that
you disagree with, I would have a good reason for that. And so I would not
remove it merely because you asked. Consequently you have no control over what
I put on my website and therefore you can never be responsible. Period.

Anyway, it is not the job of the Fidonews editor to spider the web for false or
misleading information and attempt to correct it.

 JS> It would make me responsible at least in the eyes of those that
 JS> visited the website and had little or no prior knowledge of the
 JS> reality of the situation.

Then you are accepting responsibility for something that you do not control.
Not a smart move.

 MV>> Yes, a short statement on the web site would help, but the
 MV>> problem is that it is not under anyone's control but the owner of
 MV>> the web site.

 JS>      Then the problem befalls the owner of that website. If Bjorn has
 JS> no connection to that website other than Jim displaying out of date
 JS> Fidonews information I would not expect Bjorn to be responsible.

Right. So we agree that Björn is not responsible for what is on the fidonet.org
web site. Now will you retract your statement about him not caring any more in
relation to that web site?

 MV>> People apparently still have not learned to not take everything
 MV>> they find on the web as gospel. What happened to fidonews.org is
 MV>> - unfortunately - rather typical.

 JS>      Typical but also preventable.

How?

How are you going to prevent someone form registering a domain that has
"fidonews" in it, building a web site that contains (in your eyes) misleading
information and then abandoning it so that the (in your eyes) misleading
information is frozen? How are you going to prevent that from happening again?

 JS>  While I don't think there was any intent to mislead. I do think that
 JS> Jim could have avoided or prevented misunderstandings with a few
 JS> words.

The "typical" was not so much about the misleading information, but about the
web site being abandoned and the information - misleading or not - being
frozen.

There are *many* fidonet related web sites that are abandoned and that contain
outdated or otherwise incorrect information. Here is another one:
http://www.fidonet.us

 MV>> I wish you luck with fidonews.net. I hope it will not be a rehash
 MV>> of fidonews.org.

 JS>      Thanks Michiel. If it comes to be. One thing that it will not be
 JS> is a forum for me to editorialize or express my personal opinions.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"...

If you do not intend to do anything other than just make FidoNews available,
what will be the added value of that web site? There are dozens of places where
people can read or download FidoNews. What is the added value of yet another
one?

 JS> That would be what my personal website would be for.

Fidonews.net *will* be your personal web site. You registered the domain name.
It is your initiative, you are the one responsible. That the name has a
resemblance to the official newsletter of the FidoNet community does not change
that.

Cheers, Michiel

... full fidonews archive at: http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/fidonews/

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