Text 44697, 126 rader
Skriven 2006-12-24 13:46:30 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
  Kommentar till text 44510 av Torbjorn Mohn (2:211/37)
Ärende: Re: The moderator here????
==================================
*** Quoting Torbjorn Mohn from a message to Janis Kracht ***

TM> In fact all this shows that the elist today is not worth anything.

Torbjorn, here's my take on this.  I've seen this debate many a time but I've
generally been fairly quiet after saying my bit.

The elist is a tool.  One that can be useful if used correctly for what it is. 
It's useful for example if you want to add a new echo, no matter if it's
Fidonet or Familynet (etc) to ensure you dont start one with the same name as
another as that has technical problems if a site wants 'both echos'.

When I updated FEMALE_SYSOP, it was to prevent a Fidonet site from starting one
with the same name which could have made delivery of the non-backbone
FEMALE_SYSOP difficult.

Not all echos in the elist are or were, Fidonet backbone.  This is why there is
a contact field.  Now, it's been a long time since I had to update anything
with the elist, but the system as I recall, had several spots where the
contact information was listed.  Moderator slot was just one of them.

Each slot in the format had it's own 'usefulness' though some were not
critical.

Here's 2 remnants of the several I used to handle.

TAG  FEMALE_SYSOP
TITL Female Sysop Discussion Area
MOD Carol Shenkenberger, 1:275/100
COMOD Perry Lowell, 1:101/333
DESC The Female_sysop echo is a support echo and for
DESC all female sysops, female co-sysops, female point ops,
DESC and serious 'wannabe' female sysops.  The echo is chatty and
DESC informative.
VOL 75/week
ORIG 1:275/100
DIST non-Backbone
GROUP non-backbone
LANG English
PASS BRINBACK
You will note the ORIG specifically told you who to contact for a feed.  That
this information could also be gleaned from the MOD/COMOD lines is extra. 
Most critical was it showed DIST and GROUP as non-backbone (IE, had to get
ahold of me to get a feed).  Without knowing the password, no one could send
in an update to change any of it.  A Z3 sysop go upset that there was a female
only sysop echo and he wasnt allowed in, and started a Z3 Male_Sysop.  Had I
not had the tag reserved with the elist, he would have started a backbone
Female_Syop to compete with ours and many of us were backbone mail movers
feeding others.  Would have made a problem.

TAG   FIDOSOFT.HUSKY
TITL  Husky fido software development/support
DESC  Husky is a project developing free and portable
DESC  Fidonet software for UNIX and other operating
DESC  systems.  This echo is both a developer echo
DESC  as well as a forum for user questions and
DESC  support.  English is primary but Russian,
DESC  German is tolerated.  C is our common language!
GROUP FIDO
DIST  Fidonet Backbone
GATE  absolutely none without advance permission
MOD   Tobias Ernst, 2:2476/419
MOD   Carol Shenkenberger, 6:757/1
ORIG  2:2476/419
PASS  *******
REST  /REA /RUL
RULE  HUSKY.RUL
---
This time, as it's an existing echo, I blanked the password.  I dont know if
Tobias changed it.  I know when I left, I worked out a 3rd party update for it
as Tobias had no interest in maintaining it but also didnt want any
'problems'. This time the DIST tells you that it should be available at any
fidonet hub and if they dont carry it already, they can easily add it.

Now, for tool purposes, the TAG_NAME is critical.  Many Z1 systems use
automated uplink of any echo request their downlinks want.  Quite a few tie
that to an extracted file from the echolist.  If the tag is not found, it
sends back a note about it and normally that means you did a typo.  Like,
requesting HUSKY instead of Fidosoft.husky.  It's to help out.  An echo that
isnt in the list can still be added, but needs manual intervention.

The VOL field is probably the least accurate one today.  It has to be manually
updated and I doubt many have bothered to do that.  It's only use when updated
was to give an idea of the traffic level to expect.

How useful is the MOD field?  One of the main backbone delivery systems
mandated it be filled or they wouldnt carry the echo.  In today's fidonet,
it's no longer that way I think.  The software however requires that
'something be there' and many older sysops automatically assume it's accurate.
 Those with a bit more savvy, know it's at best a good starting point to find
someone to contact if there's a problem.  Checking the echo itself however is
a very good idea.

I have no idea who is elisted for ASIAN_LINK but is there any doubt at all that
I am the real moderator there if something came up?  I doubt it.  Same as how
I see this echo.  Shannon can be a fine fellow, but the moderator for real is
Bjorn.  If I had a problem user here and Shannon said to cut them and Bjorn
said to keep them, I'd keep them (unless I really wanted them out of my system
in which case I need no moderator to cut my own users/downlinks).  If Shannon
said to keep them but Bjorn netmailed me to cut them, I'd grit my teeth and do
it.

The only time I didnt abide by any moderator in their own echo, happened to be
Bjorn's request i not talk to Roy Witt.  Roy was relinking and not reachable
by netmail and while I wasnt perfect, I mostly kept it to technical talk on
getting his listing fixed.  When Roy had problems with netmail getting about,
he got netmail to me and I got it out.  Widely <g>.

Anyway that above paragraph is a little off topic for the 'elist' but shows how
I use it when I abuse it a bit.

If I had to pick out one single line of the format most critical, it would be
the one that lists the tagname.  The next in line would be the description and
the last one be the distribution (telling me if i can get it from my uplink or
need to make special arrangements or even join Familynet to get it).  The MOD
field is only useful if I get a netmail asking me to cut a feed, to see if it
even remotely looks like they may have the reasonable 'right' to ask for that
and even then, I'd be checking the posts to see what was up.

So in summary, is the elist useful?  Yes, when used as a tool.  It is not
however the be-all-end-all tool.  'Nice to have' is how I qualify it.

                                       xxcarol

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