Text 44770, 112 rader
Skriven 2006-12-24 12:17:50 av Matt Bedynek (1:106/1)
  Kommentar till text 44504 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Kindergarten
====================
Hello Michiel.

22 Dec 06 20:28, you wrote to me:

 MB>> Some of those involved in the fray were hubs or linked to hubs
 MB>> sympathetic or actively engaged with their cause.

 MvdV> Yep. That was one of the reasons banning the user failed.

I see.  So, that is likely why an attempt by bjorn to moderate this echo or
fn_sysop will also likely fail.  You see, I contend that there are many ways to
execute change in an undesirable system.  Some of them do not always bring
about the results immediately but those that do often have unforeseen
consequences.  For example, all people had to do was wait out Roy's tenure
until the next election and vote him out.  Instead, people chose get crazy and
that was a catalyst for what we have here.  In fact, if I was Roy, I would
probaly be laughing my ass off.  It is simply amazing how some of you all allow
one person to affect the course of action for an entire network, and later,
still completely fail to realize it.

 MB>> I see that the moderator chooses to moderate (specifically Z1)
 MB>> because he knows it will do no good.

 MvdV> I take it you meant "not to moderate"?

A case of the brain thinking one thing and the fingers pushing out another. 
:-)

 RC>>> We'll just see about that. ;-)

 MvdV> I can imagine that too.

Well, exactly that already happened, those few years ago.

 MB>> So, having endorsed the first one what reason do you have to
 MB>> complain now?

 MvdV> Eh? What makes you think I am complaining? I am just making an
 MvdV> observation.

Maybe I misunderstand the "color" of your words.

 MvdV> It was as much an explosive situation as the situation here and
 MvdV> moderating it was like walking on eggs... ;-)

The only redeeming quality fidonet had to offer over the internet is the close
nit community, moderated conferences and a higher quality of content.  The
users left for the internet because they could find that same thing in their
favorite forums.  I am a member of many such forums.  I hang on because I guess
that there is some hope that might develop some new technology that will bring
life back to fido and make it more in sync with internet style forums.

 MvdV> It is not really. The incident with Paul Dickie was just that: an
 MvdV> incident. But it *did* teach moderators a lesson regarding feed cuts.

I see.  So we traded localized incidents for interzonal battles.  :-(

 MvdV> In all those years I have asked for a temporary feed cut only half a
 MvdV> dozen times. Ranging from a week to six month.

And, you can bet in most cases that compliance might be met because the user
fears losing the priviledge of posting.

 MvdV> Nothing like that. All I am saying is that the moderators have to make
 MvdV> do without the ultimate deterrent of the feed cut. Not complaning,
 MvdV> just making an observation.

But we both know that is not true.  Some in Z2 pretend as if they operate on
some higher principle but ultimately that is what it boils down to.  If you do
something that violate the policies in Z2, will you lose your node number?

 MvdV> We definitely had a problem with dictators among the *distributors*.
 MvdV> As in "if you want echomail from me, you have to dance to my tune".

That has been dead since people started moving mail via ftp and telnet.  The
only difference is that in the early days you had to put up with poor
transmission speeds since the novice mail mover could not afford high speed
connectivity.  But, at the same time, it does also still exist because
distribution can align itself to make coordinated decisions about the fate of
an echo... you trade one form of dictatorship for another, imo.

 MvdV> If I read it correctly, you (Z1) had exactly the same problem with
 MvdV> your backbones.

And if put to the test, I suspect it still does.

 MvdV> I have already made the observation that moderation by oppression is a
 MvdV> thing of the past. We had better adapt to the new reality.

There is a big difference between moderation by oppression and moderation by
enforcement.  If a child breaks the rules, in some households, they are
spanked.  And, it seems, that some adults must also be "spanked".    In your
world, the moderator is preceived to have no power at all.  The alternative, is
that the moderator owns their conference and can do what he pleases... if the
participants do not like it, they create a new echotag.  You can only hope that
the moderator is a benevolent dictator much like you hope your ZC is a
benovolent dictator, right?

 MB>> I say this because you are did the exact same thing in fn_sysop a
 MB>> few years back as some of them are doing today.

 MvdV> Your point?

If you cannot acknowledge the similarity then consider it EOT, because I am
wasting my time.

Matt

em: matt [at] thunderdome.us | icq: 16568532 | yahoo: mbedynek

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