Text 45027, 120 rader
Skriven 2006-12-26 22:24:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 44843 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Ärende: Points vs users
=======================
Hello Dale!

On Monday December 25 2006 00:45, you wrote to me:

 MVDV>> When one reads through P4 with an open mind, one can not
 MVDV>> help noticing it was written with the presumption of "free"
 MVDV>> local calls....

 DS>   True -- it definitely talks about organizing nets around local call
 DS>   areas, etc.

The crux lies in an omission. P4 is very fixed on avoiding imposing undue cost
on others. It says the host should receive incoming mail for nodes in the net
and see to it that they get it. Yet, it ommits to specify who should carry the
cost. This makse snese if ther *is* no cost. I.e. free local calls.


 MVDV>> were  still flat rate, BBS users would read and write messages
 MVDV>> on- line. Sometimes staying on-line for hours. When the telcom

 DS>    The BBSes here limited the amount of time a user could be on per
 DS> day.

I suppose they may have gone to that here too if locals calls had not been
metered. When the local calls were still flat rate, the BBSs were not very busy
yet. It was just when things started booming that he telcos switched to
metering local calls.

 DS>    The amount of time varied with BBS and whether or not the user
 DS>    "supported" the BBS (read = donated cash).   There was a problem
 DS>    with number of lines coming into the BBS (each of which cost the
 DS>    BBS money).

Yes, I can see how hat would come about in a system with free local calls.

 MVDV>> Off-line readers are less efficient than point software,

 DS>    Not sure about efficiency, but I have never found another reader
 DS>    that has the abilities of my BlueWave.

Ecer tried true point software?

 MVDV>> 1) Point software is a bit more difficult to set up than
 MVDV>> BlueWave, but once it is installed it offers more than off-
 MVDV>> line readers. F.e. it allowed freqqing files at any FidoNet
 MVDV>> system.

 DS>   In the current environment, it is difficult to find a new offline
 DS>   reader that has support.  I don't know about point software.

Actually there is no true point software. Points use the same protocols a s
nodes and hence the softwate is also the same. *any* fully fledged mailar can
be usd by a point. But as a point does not usually need all the features, some
mailer packages offered trimmed down versions for point use.

 MVDV>> least because pointing was also looked at as a breeding
 MVDV>> ground for new nodes. Almost every sysop, except for the
 MVDV>> first generation pioneers, started as a point.

 DS>   Probably true here also, with the exception that some sysops joined
 DS>   fidonet after having been a sysop in other networks.

Other networks were never a significant factor here.

 DS>> OTOH, the fighting and bitching that goes on does sometimes drive
 DS>> a person away -- more likely it will drive a sysop away, and then
 DS>> that sysop's users (if any) are left with no source.

 MVDV>> I will not say, it never happened that a sysop pulled the
 MVDV>> plug because he got tired of the fighting. But then his

 DS>    Since I wrote the above, I have read a message from a sysop who
 DS>    explicitly stated that he is contemplating dropping fido and
 DS>    shutting down because of the mess in this echo.

It is a well known fact that people do not always give the true reasons for
their actions. And whenever I read things like the above, I het sceptical. It
may be that what they percieve as the mess in this echo is the final straw. But
in my experience they have been contemplating pulling the plug and use it as an
excuse to justify it.

After all, if the state of this area was the *only* peoblem, all they had to do
to get away from it is to delink it...

 MVDV>> points usually found a new boss fairly quickly. Points use
 MVDV>> mailers and a nodelist, just like sysops. It is as easy for
 MVDV>> a point to find a new uplink (Boss) as it is for a sysop to
 MVDV>> find a new uplink if his present uplink quits.

 DS>    Some users are not as flexible, nor as knowledgable as to alternate
 DS>    choices.   When an active BBS pulls the plug, a lot of people are
 DS>    left stranded and scrambling.

Users yes. Points are usually more flexible and knowledgeble because they
essentially play with *mailer* software.

Once they become knowledgeble with the software, it will only be a matter of
time before they try freqqing a file at another system. Or crash a netmail to
another system than their bosse's. And when they participate in echomail - as
most active points do - they will get to know other sysops.

So changing boss will not be such a big things once they get the ropes.

 MVDV>> I don't think it was ever more than a minor factor, if a
 MVDV>> factor at all. Look at it this way: Despite the massive
 MVDV>> shrink, FidoNet is still considerably larger than any of
 MVDV>> the remaining othernets. Some of which allegedly do not
 MVDV>> have the fighting....

 DS>    And not all echos have the fighting, nor moderators who would
 DS>    tolerate it.

Believe it or not, there are many unmoderated echos here. And there is no
fighting...


Cheers, Michiel

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