Text 4708, 129 rader
Skriven 2005-01-09 11:25:05 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 4625 av Matt Bedynek (1:106/1)
Ärende: Pee-Four
================
Helo Matt,

 >  MvdV> .. you have the choice between anarchy or adopting some rules.

 > I was the one who stated that policy should apply to echomail

That would be a good start.

 > and that consequences should erupt from annoying behavior.
 > You disagreed.  You cannot have it both ways. You are either
 > for rules and consequences, or not.

Then you misunderstood. of course their should be consequences for annoying
behaviour. As a lat resort...

The prime effort however should be to make people aware that it is better for
all if they follow ter rules anyway. As in making the people aware that by
running red lights they endager themselves and others.

 >  MvdV> You need rules so that people know what is acceptable
 >  MvdV> and what is not.

 > And you need contigencies to deal with those who break them.

Yes, but that is not the reason for having rules.

[ mutiple echos ]

 >>> Why?
 >
 >  MvdV> Because it is a waste of resources and spreads them
 >  MvdV> out thinner. And with that I mean human resources,
 >  MvdV> not machine resources.

 > In other words, if someone does not want to put up with
 > your bullshit--too bad.

I try not to bullshit in the first place.

 > You can curse the moderator and engage in annoying behavior.

I don't want to.

 > Seems I was right after all, not to much different than some
 > here after all.  End result: A moderator, rather than deal with
 > this bullshit in Fidonet of someone telling him what to do will
 > be better off paying a $15/mo web hosting fee and set up a bulletin
 > board which he has total control.

Now you have lost me...

 > There it will be accessable from anywhere in the world
 > and recieve many more users. Everybody is happy and has a
 > choice.  A user who wanders in and does not like the person
 > who runs the board is free to come and go as they please.
 >  Don't like it? Find another?

But what's it got to do with FidoNet?

 > I am sure there are dozens of similar boards that cater to
 > any theme you can imagine.  In fact, this is exactly what
 > is happening.  Choice has taken the value out of Fidonet
 > and only choice can bring it back.

Nothing will bring it back. FidoNet is a museum piece.


 >  MvdV> Exactly! And so one of them is redundant. Especially
 >  MvdV> after this echo is forced back into what it was three
 >  MvdV> years ago.

 > Hell, why do we have this echo?

I don't know.

 > People seem to migrate to where ever the discussion is hot.
 > First it was fn_sysop, ic, fidonews, fn_sysop, and here again.
 > Lets close out all echoes and have one discussion group.

Indeed, that would be the sensible thing to do.

 >  MvdV> There is a 95% overlap in participants. Why do we
 >  MvdV> need three echos if they are de facto all general
 >  MvdV> chat areas? It makes no sense to me.

 > Choice is a great thing.

It is meaningless if you can only choose between items that are
indistinguishable from each other. What is there to choose if yiu can choose
any colour as long as it is black?

Can you tell the difference bewteen IC, FIDONEWS and FN_SYSOP just by looking
at the content of the messages? I can't.

 >>> who feel a chance to express their rigid view.  They
 >>> are so unwilling to capitulate.

 >  MvdV> Why stress the need to capitulate? Is there a war going
 >  MvdV> on that must be won by someone?

 > Obviously there is a great deal of animosity.

Yes and one does not need a crystal ball to see why.

 >  MvdV> Yes, I really think there is a fundamental difference.

 >  MvdV> And it reflects on FidoNet. Z2 style of moderation
 >  MvdV> IS different. Too bad indeed it does not work with
 >  MvdV> the Z1 folks around. :-(

 >>> I bet you all are much more similar than you realize.

 > Do you feel it is your obligation to make those who see
 > differently see it your way?

No. I just wish they would stop trying to impose their way upon me.

And what Dan Ceppa did with his terrorist act, WAS trying to impose his ways
upon me.

Just as what is happening with this so called election. allowing a self
appointed EC to set the rules and rig the election is again imposing the Z1 way
of doing things on the rest.


Cheers, Michiel

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