Text 10076, 155 rader
Skriven 2008-01-19 23:00:17 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: Myths
=============
Hello Jeff,

On Thursday January 17 2008 12:57, you wrote to me:

 JS>>> instead tried to solicit a US minor

 MV>> Did he? Solicit a *US* minor? Did the LEO explicitly pose as a
 MV>> *US* minor or just as "a girl"?

 JS>      Let me ask you this Michiel. What good would it have serverd the
 JS> LEO to pose as only a female?

For one, it could have demontsrated that he was NOT specifically looking for a
minor, but just for a girl. But of course thet was not in line wit the
objective of the cop. The cop wanted to "get him" and so the cop presented
himself as a minor as only that could lead to a conviction.

 JS> Blom demonstrated his desire to find a young girl

You keep saying that but you do not offer any proof that he demonstrated that
desire *before* the cop made his presence known.

 JS> which explains why the LEO acted as a minor female to
 JS> determine if Blom would decide to act on his intentions.

No, the reason the cop presented himself as a minor was because only that way
could a crime be construed.

You said it yourself: what good would it have done to pose as just "a girl"?

 MV>>  And if so, did it register?

 JS>     I can't answer that.

So you really do not know if Blom responded to whet he thought was a US minor.
For all we know he thought ts was just "a girl".

 MV>> I find it plausible that Menno Blom was just looking for /a/ girl
 MV>> and the only reason he responded to a "14 year American girl" was
 MV>> that that was what was presented to him. Had the LEO posed as a
 MV>> 16 year old Dutch girl, he might have taken the bait just the
 MV>> same.

 JS>      A 16 year old Dutch girl in the US?

Why not?

 JS> The age of consent in Chicago is 17 years and varies based on the
 JS> state. Generally 16-18 is the age of consent in the US. So, a 16 year
 JS> old girl would have yielded the same result.

so what if he posed as a 16 year old Dutch girl in a state where 16 is the age
of consent? Can you say for sure Blom would not have taken the bait?

 JS> My opinion is that the LEO posed as a 13-14 year old

Sidenote: the original reports all mention " 14 year old". It was Roy Witt who
seems to have made it "13 year".

 JS> because there would be less doubt of the suspects intentions of
 JS> wanting a child as opposed to a older teenager.

Posing as a minor was the on;y wau to "get him".

 JS> It would seem that if Bloms interest was for a young girl 12-14 he
 JS> would take steps to find out the age of the girl he was soliciting.

You are reasoning form the preconceived notion that it was an underage girl he
wanted. What if he did not pay attention to the alleged age of the girl. What
if he merely wanted "a girl" and assumed automatically that since "she"
responded there was no age problem. After all why would a real girl too young
to be allowed to have sex respond?

 JS> If he was wanting an older girl then why didn't he refuse interaction
 JS> with the aparent 13

14

 JS>  year old?

Because he was not at all awrae thet there might be a problem? The cop
mentioned "her" age, but maybe he did not pay attention, Surely the cop did not
stress the matter of age as that might have made him wonder why she kept
mentioning that. It might have made him suspicous and that of course is not
what the cop wanted. The cop wanted to nail him. So the cop mentioned "her" age
in passing but of course did northing to stress it, let alone warn him that he
might commit a crime by responding.

 JS> If someone is interested in sex with a child it would only seem
 JS> prudent to know what legal ramafications there might be based on the
 JS> child's age as well as their location.

Abd conversely if he was not interested in sex with a child per sé, he would
not be aware of the legal ramifications. Blom obviouslyas not aware of the
legal raifictaions, so that tells me sex with an underage minor was *not* was
he was after.

 JS> If the LEO's pose or advertise themselves as a minor child. They are
 JS> in essence holding up a sign that says "Hi, I am 13. Anyone there?"

Which is illegal in The Netherlands.

Now please anser my question about what you think would happen of The
Netherlands asked the US for his extradition.

 JS>>>     You are trying to paint Blom as some innocent law abiding
 JS>>> soul who was tricked into wanting to have sex with a child. Give
 JS>>> me a break Michiel.

 MV>> Nevertheless from our POV, that is precisely what happened.

 JS>      You do like to try to speak for the non US masses don't ya
 JS> Michiel.

I know Dutch law and I know the comments made by the expexts here. From our POV
Menno Bloms was a law abiding citizen tricked into traveliing t the USA so that
he could be arrested on charege of a fabricated crime.

 MV>> Someone who operates within the confines of the law is a law abiding
 MV>> citizen. When Menno Blom was approached by the US cop, he was
 MV>> residing on Dutch soil and had broken no Dutch law. Ergo, he was
 MV>> a law abiding citizen. And tricked he was. By the LEO who
 MV>> presented himself with a false identity. And a dirty trick to
 MV>> boot.

 JS>      That is merely your opinion Michiel to which you are certainly
 JS> entittled.

It is more that my opnion. It is the official Ductch legal POV. As laid down in
the letter that the them Dutch minister of justice wrote to the US authorities.

 MV>> How can we ever trust the US when their officials pull dirty
 MV>> tricks like that on our citizens?

 JS>      Give me a break. Bottom line is that Blom made the decision to

No Jeff, bottom line is that you declare your law to prevail over ours.

 JS> try to have sex with a child in a country where that is a crime. And
 JS> you cry foul when that country tries to hold that person responsible
 JS> for their actions. There was no trick Michiel except in your mind.

Of course it was a trick. The policeman had no bussines interfering at all,
since no crime was committed and he had no authority to meddle with a Dutch
citizen residing on Dutch soil. There was no girl, had the cop done nothing,
nothing would have happened.

Now please answer my question: what do you think would happen if The
Netherlands were to ask for the cops extradition?


Cheers, Michiel

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