Text 10926, 105 rader
Skriven 2008-02-11 10:34:25 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: Shootings in USA
========================
Hello Jeff,

On Saturday February 09 2008 10:50, you wrote to me:

 MV>> Exactly. So do not give them guns. Why does a law abiding citizen
 MV>> need a gun in the first place?

 JS>      What justification does the government use to deny them the
 JS> freedom to own a gun?

The same justification for denying them the right to store plutonium or anthrax
in their shed: it is too bloody dangerous to trust in the hands of ordinary
citizens!

 JS> Remember Michiel that here the right to bear arms is considered one of
 JS> our basic rights.

Societies evolve and with them the perception of basic rights. Just over half a
century ago there were tribes where cannibalism was considered a basic right.
They evolved....

 JS> I consider myself a law abiding person.

Law abiding means no more than observing the rules of the tribe. Those
cannibals were law abiding citizens.

 JS> And yet I own close to a dozen guns of various types (handguns,
 JS> rifles, and shotguns). Do I need all or them? Probably not but aquired
 JS> them one by one over the years and I have gotten rid of several too.
 JS> Why do I have them? Some I use for birds (Ducks, Etc.)

Why do you have a need to shoot birds? Don't they sell food at the suoermarket?

 JS> while others I use for small game hunting and others for big game.

Why do you need to hunt for your food? Has your society not evolved from the
hunter stage yet?

 JS> Some are strickly for use on the firing range. Each type of gun has an
 JS> intended purpose. Whether you agree with their use or not.

I am sure thet if it were allowed to have substances like antrax and plutonium
I could come up with a valid reason for every one of those substances I
posessed...

 JS>>> Is the solution to ban guns completely?

 MV>> Simply look at the statistics. In countries where guns are
 MV>> limited to police and the military far less people get killed in
 MV>> violent incidents.

 JS>     Then why Michiel does study after study show that increasing gun
 JS> control laws leads to more crime rather than less crime?.

Because those studies do not look beyond your own back yard. Yes of course, if
you ban guns in one town, but do not ban them in the next count fifty km down
the road, you will have criminals from that other town come fill the gap.

YYou should compare the US with countries like Sweden or The Netherlands weher
there is strict gun control and then you will see that less guns means less
violent crime.

 MV>> That would make it a lot easier for the police to tell law
 MV>> abiding citizens from criminals wouldn't it?

 JS>      But at what cost to the rights of the average citizen? I think
 JS> part of our disagreement stems from our view of whether people should
 JS> be allowed to own, carry guns. You probably look at "Guns" from a
 JS> differant perspective thay they are viewed here.

Right. I see guns in the hands of citizens as a leftover from a more primitive
society. In a modern socitey such as mine, people do not need to have guns and
society as a whole is better of without them.

 MV>> But that is no the problem. If someone decides to kill someone,
 MV>> there is not much anyone can do about it. He/she will find a way.

 JS>      True. But how would banning guns make any differance then?

The difference will be in me not getting killed in an "accident" where a robber
enters my house, nit intending to kill me, but us both having a gun "just for
protection"

If I do not have a gun, the robber does not need a gun to "protect himself"
from my gun. And so if I catch him he just run for it. (That actually happened
to me).

 MV>> And why do burglars have guns? Because they know the house owners
 MV>> have guns.

 JS>      Or because they want to be able to control and overwhelm the
 JS> victim.

Burglars do not want to ovwrwhelm anyne. They just want to take whatever the
think they can sell and then leave as quickly as they can. They normally wait
for the house to be empty.

Here (where we have gun control) burglars caught with guns are *extremely*
rare.


Cheers, Michiel

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