Text 12150, 197 rader
Skriven 2008-03-09 19:45:38 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
  Kommentar till text 12148 av Jeff Bowman (1:229/500)
Ärende: Economy (was Bush vetoes Waterboarding Bill)
====================================================
Hello Jeff!

09 Mar 08 19:28, you wrote to me:

 >> Anyone could have been President during the 1990's and these things
 >> still would have happened.

 JB> I simply don't agree.  The public's perception of having a good or bad
 JB> leader affects the country, regardless of any decisions made by the
 JB> lower branches. A bad leader makes people more afraid of economic
 JB> change and other such negative things, which directly affects how
 JB> people do business, from top tier things like stocks, to just an
 JB> average Joe buying a home.

With the founding of the WWW only a mere handful of years before (Thanks to Tim
Berners Lee), chip manufacturing technology improving, read:

The Pentium Processor
The Palm Pilot
Better Cellphones
OS/2, Windows and Linux enabling better power computing.
(I am not a Mac Officienado to adequately credit them)

Improved HDD technology that eventually has led to the 1TB drives now
available.

Flash Memory!

None of these which either sparked or came to be naturally through innovation,
which represented the boom years, resulted from anything the Clinton did.

 JB> Clinton could have fought tooth and nail with the Republican congress
 JB> like Bush has tried to do, but he didn't.  They made it work for the
 JB> most part, and thanks to him, they got things going pretty well.  I do
 JB> give Clinton credit for that, just like I give Bush blame for what's
 JB> going on now.  And Bush even had a free ticket to whatever he wanted
 JB> to fix things, back when his party controlled everything.

You do know that the current Democratically controlled congress has a lower
approval rating than Bush now, dont you?

 >> Well he signed NAFTA which his parties candidates seem to be
 >> bemoaning now, even his wife.

 JB> Nobody's above making a bad decision, no matter what party you belong
 JB> to.  We could talk about No Child Left Behind or any of those other
 JB> band-aid programs, too.

The Democrats dont believe in holding teachers and students responsible or
rather accountable for basic standards.

This is why the Europeans have us beat in basic education, they expect results!

 >> You can give him credit for presiding over such prosperity but
 >> nothing he did triggered it, unless of course you believe his Vice
 >> President really did invent the Internet.

 JB> I akin your dismissal of Clinton's role to our economic improval to

I didnt say his role was negative, I only say he didnt do anything special to
create it, the momentum that led to the boom was already in progress before he
took office, he happened to be the one who took office.

 JB> saying the same thing would have happened with 9/11 and Iraq had
 JB> someone else been president now.

If Al Gore had won the Whitehouse in 2000, you can take this to the bank, there
still would have been a 9/11, I doubt a Iraq.

You must remember, the reasons for the attack had nothing to do with Bush and
perhaps the Clinton, but us overall having troops in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait
and our support for Israel.

 JB>   Again, this is simply not true.
 JB> It's already been proven that evidence was ignored by the Bush
 JB> administration which could have possibly prevented 9/11 from the very
 JB> start.

Let me guess, you dont believe we put men on the moon either?

Can you provide evidence that this administration was well aware of the method
of attack and the identities and whereabouts of the 19 men whom wrestled
control of those 4 airplanes?

We also could point a fickle finger of blame towards the Clinton...

Lets start with the Somalia Mission...

Bush Elder just before leaving office sends in our troops on a humanitarian
mission to feed the Somalis..

Warlord goes Bezerk..

Clinton inherits this..

Militarizes the mission from humanitarian to offensive..

Blackhawk Down!

Clinton immediately withdraws..

Sends wrong message to Al-queda.

Embassy Bombings....

Clinton bombs aspirin factory and empty training camps, does not prosecute this
punitive action any further.

Sudan offers Bin Laden to us, Clinton administration refuses.

USS Cole attacked and severely damaged, Clinton does nothing.

See how that works Jeff?

 JB>   Yet we get Bush lackies like Condoleezza Rice standing up
 JB> there giving us a bunch of blatant falsehoods to make it sound like it
 JB> wasn't their fault, and that they "hate our freedom".

Actually they do..

Just as radical Christians would prefer everyone to be like them, the radical
muslims prefer the same, only that they are willing to both cause death and die
for that aim.

 JB> Of course, that's not to mention the boatload of mistruths we got
 JB> about Iraq. I'm pretty sure had there been a different president, that
 JB> would have never been the case.

No doubt.

 >> Including the recession that Bush inherited as a result of the
 >> bubble burst?

 JB> He didn't inherit any true recession, he and his administration caused
 JB> one.

Your naivete is showing..

The economists stated plainly and clearly that the recession as it was started
roughly in March 2001, thats 1.5 months after Bush was sworn in, recessions
take a helluvalot longer than a month and a half to develop, he had not the
time to enact any policy to spurn one and shit, he didnt even have all of his
cabinet confirmed by then either.

However, what happens under ones watch is what one gets blamed for.

With the economy the way it is now and if we get a President Obama or Hillary,
will you apply the same logic to them??? I doubt it.

 >> Oh yes, that tax rebate that drove many liberals insane.

 >> Guess you dont have a opinion on the rebates we are fixing to get
 >> since it had alot of liberal hands in it!

 JB> I do have an opinion, I think the rebate is a silly attempt to make
 JB> people think the government is really trying to help everyone and that
 JB> there's no recession.  It's a morale booster for people who are tired
 JB> of the current administration, that's all.  The money would have been
 JB> better spent on education or healthcare.

and who says that the people arent free to put the money towards those things?

 >> It doesnt take a Clinton.

 JB> Agreed, but another Bush wouldn't improve things.  That's why if it
 JB> weren't for McCain being so war hungry, I might actually give him some
 JB> consideration for president.

Who says he is war hungry?

He knows that a sudden withdrawal from Iraq will again send the wrong message.

Since he and his 2 Democrat rivals are all US Senators, he is the only one whom
has demonstrated a willingness to reach across the aisle to get certain
legislation passed, even if he was misguided.

 >> Still ignoring Iraq, Katrina didnt help.

 JB> Another avoidable situation, but not the upper level government's
 JB> fault so much.

Yet many liberals blame the levy deficiencies on Bush.

New Orleans is years away from having all of its levies built up enough to
withstand a Cat5 storm.

Complacency was the problem and all the policy makers since Hurricane
Camille(?) can share blame.


==
Ross
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... A govt big enough to give, is big enough to take.
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 * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)