Text 12440, 92 rader
Skriven 2008-03-12 10:38:26 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
     Kommentar till en text av Jeff Bowman
Ärende: Re: Bush Vetoes Waterboarding Bill
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JB> It may sound a bit harsh to say, but many of the people in that part of
JB> the world just have a long way to go to catch up with the rest of the
JB> "civilized" world, before all their constant violence can come to an end.
 
I'm with you.
 
JB> And while I hate that things turned out the way they did, I also have to
JB> ask why aren't the Iraqi people themselves doing more to take back their
JB> country?
 
My take on that is because all those countries were invented by western powers.
As of old there is no Iraq, no Iran, no Afghanistan, not even Saudi-Arabia.
They all were "invented" in the west using what we would recognise as "borders"
while the people there have different ways of differentiating. There are tribal
differences, racial differences, religious differences .... throw that all in
the melting-pot and you cook a stew of trouble. Under a "leader" (!) like
Saddam the lid was securely fastened, now it's a free for all.
 
JB> We've given them the chance to have a new democratic government
JB> without the fear of Saddam looming over them.  All they have to do is
JB> take it and hold onto it, even fight for it, if they want it as badly as
JB> they claimed before.
 
Freedom is something remarkable to people who've never known freedom. It takes
quite a while of getting used to if for centuries you were ruled by some
warlord.
 
Look at Russia. Communism collapsed and they were free, yet in the west we can
observe that balances are still not reached. There was a presidential election
which was over faster than going to a KFC in Oklahoma.
 
JB> I do honestly believe that some Iraqis are thankful for what we did.  And
JB> I believe some are glad we're there to protect them.
 
Certainly. Several of my American friends served in Iraq or Afghanistan and
they say all the same that the ordinary citizen in general is glad they're
there ... and prefer them to stay.
 
JB> I think you have to live in America to fully grasp how the government can
JB> sell something off onto the American people.  The majority of them simply
JB> don't care about politics.
 
I'm very much aware. During my first stay in the US in an exchange programme in
Montana, one guy asked me "You're from Belgium? So have you ever been to
Europe?"    It's the same more or less with my alaska experiences. There they
think Europe is a place where people come from to fish, hunt or hike in Alaska.
And their main worry is how much their State Dividend will be that year on
Alaskan oil.
 
That's just an observation, not an accusation. When the living conditions and
the situation of your general area is as such that every day is a struggle then
it doesn't matter much who's in charge when you get hungry.
 
JB> But the average American has other things in
JB> their daily lives to worry about than endless streams of political
JB> hogwash.
 
I'm with you.
 
JB> The Taliban are already worming their way back into power there from what
JB> I hear.  That's why we should have all our resources focused there, where
JB> our actual problem really was.
 
In the long term, imo Afghanistan is a bigger issue than Iraq. And Afghanistan
has _never_ in its history been conquered by a ruler. It's not really sectarian
like Iraq, it's very much tribal.
 
JB> I have hopes that at least the seeds of democracy we planted will lead to
JB> less violence once we're gone, once the people see what their country is
JB> starting to turn into.  I think the people there are obviously willing to
JB> fight for what they believe in.  They just currently aren't fighting for
JB> the right thing.
 
It has the resources to be one of the richest countries in the world and people
expected it to be turned into another UAE overnight with richess for all and
no-one being required to work.
 
Improve the living standards of the people and the sectarian differences will
all come to matter much less.
 
JB> And now I save possibly the largest message I've ever sent on Fidonet
JB> before it accidently gets lost somehow!
 
It was a joy to read it, one of the best posts here in years. Please write
more.
 
Take care,
 
 \%/@rd

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