Text 12695, 141 rader
Skriven 2008-03-14 01:33:40 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
  Kommentar till text 12493 av Jeff Bowman (1:229/500)
Ärende: Bush Vetoes Waterboarding Bill
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 JB> That's okay, I'm not unaccustomed to being criticized about my opinions on
 JB> healthcare from friends (and otherwise) who are conservative.  But I stand
 JB> by everything I ramble on with, because various members of my family
 JB> experienced the country's healthcare disaster first hand, some of which
 JB> from an income bracket that a lot of conservatives don't seem to concern
 JB> themselves with.

It's the same as home then, those with money can buy private health care and
don't have to wait for their turn like everyone else.

 JB> From my point of view, raising taxes to ensure everyone has a basic right
 JB> to health is completely worthwhile.  I mean we already have public
 JB> schools, police, fire, emergency services (911), etc.  Why is this truly
 JB> any different?

I don't know. If they can even here in Thailand so could you.

 JB> I honestly would not mind paying more to see that my
 JB> family, friends, and neighbors never had to worry about their health or
 JB> medical bills. Opponents of universal healthcare plans however seemingly
 JB> have a disregard for the well-being of others if it means coming out of
 JB> their pockets. They strongly feel that it's not their responsibility to
 JB> spend their money to ensure the health of others.

Untill the day they for some reason should be needing it for them self.

 JB>  A friend of mine told
 JB> me this himself once, and it kind of disappointed me to hear him say such
 JB> a thing. People like McCain, and their "pay your own way" ideology, does
 JB> not work when you can't pay.

True.

 JB> Better health just means a better country.  Less people off their jobs
 JB> from illness means more productivity.  Billions are lost every year from
 JB> that alone.  More people would be able to join the workforce in general
 JB> instead of living off of government benefits. Preventative medicine in
 JB> general would lower overall medical costs by stopping problems before they
 JB> got worse.  I've also mentioned before how the number one cause of filing
 JB> for bankruptcy was from unpaid medical bills. Right there is another
 JB> problem solved, and the economy improved. Implement standard drug rates
 JB> like in the U.K. and these drug companies wouldn't be able to swindle
 JB> older people out of their money to pay for needed medicine, which means
 JB> their savings and such would last them longer, without them ending up on
 JB> government benefits.

They changed our system with drugs and raised the limit for what we have to
pay ourself and that caused many elderly that need much medecine to go
bankrupt too so we aren't the best in this case.
I didn't have to pay anything for my medecine before but now I have to pay
about $260 but if I should pay the full price it would be $14 300 per year so
I'm not that sad after all.

 JB> Just the act of having a competitive government program would force
 JB> current healthcare companies to lower their rates and offer better care to
 JB> stay in business. So even the people who chose to go with private
 JB> healthcare could end up benefiting from it.

It's all about the money and who cares if the patient live or die.

 JB> I could go on and on naming things that could improve if nobody had to
 JB> worry about being able to see a doctor when they needed. That's not to
 JB> mention just the lack of stress on people from not having to worry about
 JB> paying or getting screwed out of coverage by a current healthcare
 JB> provider.

See above.

 JB> I do understand some of the objections, like the possibility for waiting
 JB> periods and stuff.  But there's no reason why we can't borrow all the
 JB> working parts from the countries who have proven it's possible, and make
 JB> one of the best healthcare systems in the world.  This is America, for
 JB> crying out.  We shouldn't be behind at anything to this degree.  There's
 JB> no excuse for it.

I agree.

 JB> As for waiting periods, I don't see why it would be any different than
 JB> Britain in terms of us still having private doctors.  If you didn't want
 JB> to wait, you could simply go to one of those.  You'd be "paying your own
 JB> way", or maybe your private insurance company would cover it, who knows.
 JB> Either way, nobody is forced to wait if they don't want.  If it were done
 JB> properly, there wouldn't be much waiting for anyone in the first place.

Back home you can choose what hospital you want to go to if the waiting period
at our own is too long and for us that lives near Norway it's even possible to
go
there or to a hospital in Germany.

 JB> Anyway, as for the possibility that I'm "anti-American" simply for saying
 JB> such things, I would point out that I come from a family of veterans, for
 JB> what it's worth. My grandfather was on a ship in WW2 that was torpedoed,
 JB> for example, but he managed to survive and come home to the daughter (my
 JB> mother) that he had left merely weeks after she was born.

For those who would whine, that doesn't count.

 JB> His brother however didn't fare so well during the Korean war. We were
 JB> told he was killed by a land mine. And that's the story we believed until
 JB> my grandfather died, only later to learn that they had discovered new
 JB> evidence (within this decade). He had been wounded, and captured by the
 JB> Koreans, only to be beaten to death in one of their POW camps.  This news
 JB> came about due to a particularly brave soldier who had been secretly
 JB> keeping a list of everyone detained there, and what happened to them. I'm
 JB> very glad my grandfather died not knowing the truth about his brother's
 JB> death.

It makes me sad to hear that.

 JB> I'm sure even my grandfather would have plenty to say about some of this
 JB> stuff if he were around, because I can remember him watching the news and
 JB> always having something to say when a government official was being a
 JB> bonehead.  I was just too young at the time to have any idea what he was
 JB> talking about.  But it further reinforces my opinion that thinking poorly
 JB> of a leader is not the same as thinking poorly of a country.

My FIL have been a socialist for all his life, over 70 years, but with the
precent
socialist party he's not too happy. In many questions they have turned more
blue
than the right-wing party.

 JB> Anyway, not to get all preachy there, but maybe it will give a little
 JB> perspective to anyone in doubt of my motives for saying the things I do.
 JB> People don't have to agree with me on the healthcare issue at all, that's
 JB> just my opinion.  Hell, I don't even like Hillary or Barack's plan for
 JB> universal healthcare, mostly because they're trying to use the currently
 JB> established companies to do it.  But I just don't feel like proponents of
 JB> better healthcare should be criticized on the personal level I tend to
 JB> see.

After having you experience I can understand how you feel about it.

 JB> I'll probably save this and realize I forgot to say something after it's
 JB> too late, but surely I made my point regardless with all of this.

It has been interesting to read this from someone with personal experience
and the usual empty phrases from those who only watch Fox News.

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 * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)