Text 12956, 135 rader
Skriven 2008-03-15 12:39:24 av Jeff Bowman (1:229/500)
  Kommentar till text 12944 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Google and Gmail
============================
 
Mv>JB> This is where I definitely don't blame people in other countries for
Mv>JB> being wary of it.
 
Mv> Why limit it to people in other countries?
 
Because, from my naturally optimistic American view, I see certain other
countries as being more likely to be the ones tossing someone in jail for
speaking out against the government.  As being the kind who would actually
request search engine and/or emails from a company in the first place just to
see what sorts of things they've been doing politically.
 
And while a few years ago my view of such nazi-like behavior not happening in
America would be true, I suppose I have to work that slight possibility in
there these days, because you just never know.
 
 
Mv>JB> We've already seen that Yahoo was willing to turn over the IPs of
Mv>JB> dissidents to the Chinese government.  They operate in the country
Mv> and
Mv>JB> arguably have to abide by their rules, sure,
 
Mv> As they have to abide by the rules of the US. Why are you not worried
Mv> about what your own government can do with the user data mined by the
Mv> search engines?
 
Because, as misguided as the country may be at the moment, I know that
Americans are still protected under free speech laws.  Now of course, Bush has
pretty much revoked all rights to fair trial and such if you're declared an
"enemy combatant", so I have to trust that our government wouldn't apply that
label to someone willy-nilly without having good reason.  Saying the president
stinks for example is not good reason.
 
I don't like the way our government has gone with the ability to remove such
rights and detain people for questionable reasons, but again, I just have to
trust that it's not happening to common people every day for trivial things.
Therefore, I just don't worry about it.  If they want to know what I've been up
to bad enough, they don't need Google to do it.  They'd just illegally wiretap
and search the home, then deal with the paperwork later.
 
 
Mv>JB> but that sucks pretty hard, and I lost some respect for them as a
Mv>JB> result. Folks are sitting in prison now, or worse, because of it.
 
Mv> And you think that will never happen in the USA?
 
Over the same sorts of things that poeple get arrested for in China?  No,
never.  I think we still have a long way to go before we turn into that.
 
 
Mv> I will not touch Gmail with a ten foot pole. Gmail stores your e-mail
Mv> "forever". On a server under US jurisdiction. They may promise they will
Mv> never turn it over to your government but how can they hold that promise?
 
I believe you're possibly basing your information on the way Gmail initially
worked. You can in fact delete your emails now, and I'm pretty sure they're
gone forever.  There's a button for it, because people complained about how
everything just sat in the trash forever.  I think there may have been a way to
delete the emails all along if I recall correctly, but it was nested in a menu.
 Google wanted you to keep all those emails for content-appropriate advertising
initially.
 
Out of curiosity, what do you use for email?
 
 
Mv> For me, a non US citizen it is even worse. The US holds the position that
Mv> privacy of mail only applies to US citizens. Mail originating from non US
Mv> citizens can - and is - read without a court order. Even if it is only in
Mv> transit though the US.
 
As far as I'm concerned, anything and everything passing over the internet is
read without a court order.  And probably by more than just the US government. 
If you want it to be "completely" private, use encrypted connections and data.
 
 
Mv>JB> My one comment regarding Ixquick is regarding filtering.  Since it's
Mv>JB> based in your country are you at all worried about your government
Mv>JB> controlling what search results you see?
 
Mv> Why would I be more worried about my own government than your government?
 
Because your own government would be much more interested in what you were
doing there and actually be in a position to arrest you over things than
America would/could be. Assuming your government would do such things in the
first place, at least, since I'm just speaking in general terms.
 
 
Mv> There is no internet filtering done here in my country. Not that I know
Mv> of anyway and if it is done it is illegal. There has been some talk about
Mv> blocking child porn sites, but that would be on the DNS level and that
Mv> can be easily circumvented by making use of another DNS server like
Mv> OpenDns.
 
Child porn sites should just be null-routed and killed globally without
monkeying with DNS on a country to country basis.  There should be a universal
group who is capable of investigating and handling such things.
 
Of course, one could argue that maybe that gives such a group too much power,
possibly letting them use it on unrelated sites, but I guess you have to put
faith in people at some point.
 
 
Mv> As far as i know, that is not done here. ISP are required to retain
Mv> tracking records of e-mail - not the content - for some time, but AFAIK
Mv> it still requires a court order to release them.
 
Businesses here are required to keep internal emails for up to three years, I
believe.  That's not personal emails through places like Google though, mind
you.
 
 
Mv> For the same reason, I do not use IMAP. I only use POP3 for mailboxes.
Mv> With POP3 the mail is removed from the server after it is downloaded.
Mv> With IMAP a copy remains on the server and so is up for grabs.
 
Gmail even offers IMAP now, which I tried to use for a short time, but found it
was just easier/faster to keep getting it by pop3 and then go back on the site
at random times and sort it via the web interface too.
 
 
Mv> With POP3 any LEO that wants to read my e-mail will have to come to my
Mv> house - with a warrant. Well, maybe they will change the law so that the
Mv> warrant can be dispensed with, but then at least I *know* I am under
Mv> investigation.
 
Unless the POP3 connection is encrypted (which it may or not be depending on
the server you're connected to), anyone that can monitor the traffic can get
all the emails.
 
All of these sorts of ways that make it possible for people to spy on stuff are
why I don't worry any more than I do about privacy.  Unless I explicitly
attempt to keep something private, I don't count on it to truly be.

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