Text 1711, 134 rader
Skriven 2007-05-19 23:01:18 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
   Kommentar till text 1701 av Carol Shenkenberger (3:800/201)
Ärende: This Echo
=================
Hello Carol.

19 May 07 09:22, you wrote to Joe Delahaye:

 CS> Interesting isnt it that folks are always claiming Bjorn hates all
 CS> Americans yet you've never seen him and me mix it up ever.  He never
 CS> abuses me and even if our political views are distinctly different, I
 CS> take his comments and try to see from his view on them.


     I don't claim that Bjorn hates all Americans. If he does that would
be up to him and be his right to think as he chooses. Although if he were
to hate all Americans I would want to better understand and be inclined
to ask why. The problem that I have with Felten is not that he dislikes
the US and Americans and has clearly stated so. It is that as editor and
moderator he publically expresses his bias and prejudice and his personal
dislike of people based on what country they come from. That has no place
in this echo from a moderator or in the Fidonews from an editor.


 CS> Normally he starts with a simple 'idea' of something he doesnt like,
 CS> and then only later when folks jump on him with names and things, does
 CS> it get 'bad'.  If they keep it to comments on the view, and not name
 CS> calling on the person who holds the view, you can get some good
 CS> commentary going.


     Then you are missing many of Bjorn's posts Carol. On a number of
occasions there has been something said and Bjorn will interject a
anti-American comment. Or use derogatory slang terms to refer to Americans.

 CS> If Bjorn says 'Americans arent liked overseas' folks jump all over
 CS> him as anti-American.  If *I* say 'Americans arent liked overseas'
 CS> folks would debate the idea.

     Why? Americans ARE different that those of other countries. That doesn't
necessarily make Americans any better or worse. If Bjorn were to say that
Americans are differant. I would be one of the first to agree with him and
would not view that as an anti-American statement. Bjorn is alot more direct
in his expressed dislike for Americans than you are trying to suggest. His
posts speak for themselves.

 CS>  In fact, Amercians *arent* universally loved overseas <grin>.

      And I doubt that we ever will be even generally loved overseas for
several reasons. Westerners see America as just another nation, the most
commercially successful one, with a poor pollution record and a number of
other bad things. Also America is seen by many as a Police figure, although
the UN's decisions are much more respected, it is frequently the US that has
the required military power to get the UN job done. America is a required
nation, a stabilizer in the world. But along with that there is also bound
to be resentment and dislike.


 CS>  We are often too opinionated and less likely to take another
 CS> culture's values and respect them.  We as a group are prone at least
 CS> think 'why don't you do it my way' (People with sense don't actually
 CS> say that but you can tell they are thinking it).

     Additionally I would say that the US does not go nearly far enough to
try to understand other cultures. Better communication and understanding is
the key. In fact there are a number of things that need to be changed.
America's self perception needs to change to become more modest. Something
that will hopefully work toward earning more respect amoung other countries.
I also think that America should no longer use the idea of supporting terrorism
or armed conflict in one country to remove its present government. This has
always backfired. All arms sold to the world, are arms that later need to be
confiscated.

 CS> Traveling the world, you can see that Americans are a very unique
 CS> type of 'monoculturalizm'.  There are others like that too, but they
 CS> don't travel outside their areas as much.  Chinese for example.
 CS> Japanese too among a large segment of them (but they are so polite,
 CS> it's apt to never be noticed and they have one difference, they
 CS> really don't mind that othercountries and people think differently.
 CS> They just 'know' they are 'better';-)


     I don't think that we are all that much differant in basic ways. The
differance is that America, Americans, is a much more open culture. Open
to world view and to world citicizm. I am sure that we think we are better
just as much as anyone else.

 CS> So, when 'we' see something that isnt the same, such as the copywrite
 CS> laws, 'we' immediately want the 'other culture' to change to our view.


     Why? If a country enacts laws that work for that country AND it's people
why should we have a problem with that? The squable here over copyrights was
more about individuals using copyrights to try to make some point.

 CS> Aint happenin' but 'we' get all upset about it.  If instead, 'we'
 CS> could say 'how interesting, why is it done that way there?' we might
 CS> learn someting of another's view.  I learned about how other lands
 CS> deal with copywrite issues and found it quite facinating, especially
 CS> the answers from OZ folks.


     There is nothing wrong with learning new or better ways of doing
things. In this case it was not so much a fundemental differance in copyright
issues as much as it was a rather silly use of copyrights to make a point.


 CS> You'll see this in reverse too from some in Z2 when it comes to
 CS> operational policy of Fidonet.  No matter how often it is explained
 CS> that Z1 operates a bit differently, some Z2 folks still want Z1 to
 CS> swap to their methods.  They feel it valid to point out that they are
 CS> 'bigger' and so have this 'right'.  Americans however have a cultural
 CS> bias of supporting the little guy as much as possible while still
 CS> dealing with the 'majority rule'.  We intrinsically object to stomping
 CS> the little guy to death.  I'm pretty sure that's just as valid for
 CS> Canadians <G>.

     That is something that I have never been able to successfully
understand. Many from Z2 talk about the Z2 way of doing things and
how their way is so much better. And yes, there are those from Z1
that will say the same thing. My question is why do we NEED to limit
ourselves to only thinking zonally? What should matter in our network
is what works the best. Regardless of what zone it might come from. In
fact it was even brought up in referance to Bjorn and his retention of
being editor and moderator. Got to keep control in Z2. It gives me a
chuckle each time I think about it.


 CS> Ok, rambling thoughts but hey, thats why we are here.
 CS>                                        xxcarol

 CS> --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4
 CS>  * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS, Sasebo Japan 81-6160-527330 (3:800/201)

Jeff

--- FMail/Win32 1.60
 * Origin:  Twin_Cities_Metronet - New Hope, MN USA  (1:14/0)