Text 19664, 133 rader
Skriven 2008-08-15 14:51:04 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 19644 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Morality and law
========================
15 Aug 08 07:20, Robert Bashe wrote to Roy Witt:

 RB> Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Thursday August 14 2008 at 11:49:

 RB>>> Secret wiretaps without judicial approval or review (not even that
 RB>>> of a secret judge)?

 RW>> Never happened to US citizens.

 RB> Not only did Bush admit this was his current practice, but he stated
 RB> that he intended to continue it. Congress grumbled that the executive
 RB> was pre-emptimg the powers of the legislative, but did nothing.

That fact is, he has those powers and the Congress doesn't. Check your
copy of the Constitution. It hasn't changed much since you abandoned your
home.

 RB>>> Retroactive legalization of illegal wiretaps by phone companies?

 RW>> Only Congress can pass legislation.

 RB> And the president can propose and lobby for it.

When has that ever given any President, exactly, what he wanted? The fact
is, the President doesn't need the Congress' permission under the War
Powers Act. Ask FDR if he needed Congress' approval, leading up to WW2.

 RB> The present climate wasn't created by congress, and in fact congress
 RB> was merely a rubber stamp before the last elections.

Not even then. The President has always had these powers over and above
the Legislative body. Lincoln, Wilson and FDR had them and used them when
it was necessary to do so. See: Habeas Corpus Revoked and then refer to
Tribunal Court hearings. After that, look up the word, citizen vs
nonbeligerant.

 RB>  Even now, the democrats are so scared they'll be accused of being
 RB> "soft on terrorism" that they are sometimes even more hardline than
 RB> the republicans.

They're not scared, they have no grounds and they know it. If they had any
balls, they'd go ahead and defund the Iraq War to stop the Prez, or
impeach him. But they know that its not going to fly, so why bother.

 RB> The whole atmosphere is one of fear and suspicion.

LOL! Ever hear of a Mexican Standoff? The Dems are waiting and hoping
they'll have the WH and a majority in January. Then, they'll do the same
as the Prez has done.

 RB>>> Concentration camps outside the USA to avoid the need to obey US
 RB>>> law?

 RW>> US Concentration camps? That's rediculous.

 RB> I didn't write "extermination camps". Get real.

That's still rediculous, this even more.

 RB>>> I'm not only talking about Guantanamo

 RW>> Gitmo is a retirement community, where those being held are treated
 RW>> better than American criminals held in American prisons.

 RB> And I thought you were relatively well informed up to now.

You must have some inside knowledge that supercedes what every one else
knows.

 RB> If you are, you're sure not thinking when you write such patently
 RB> untrue things.

Those are facts. Live with them.

 RB>>> - the secret CIA prisons are meanwhile public knowledge.

 RW>> Rumor and nothing more.

 RB> Bullshit.

That's what I said, only in a more polite manner.

 RB>>> Let's just ignore Iraq, but what Bush has done to _Americans_
 RB>>> reminds me of the retroactive legalization of the "Night of the
 RB>>> Long Knives" in Germany in 1934.

 RW>> Of course you know this from experience? I've yet to see anything of
 RW>> the sort and I live here.

 RB> Then you're blind, Roy.

So, you're saying that you can see this happening from where you
sit...LOL!

 RB> I don't ignore history just because I don't like the conclusions.

Instead, you mistate it to suit yourself.

 RB>>> I've come from defending the man because I didn't see proof of
 RB>>> misdeeds, to seeing just what he has done to America, its legal
 RB>>> system and its reputation throughout the globe.

 RW>> That's because you're too easily swayed by the liberals in Europe.

 RB> Again, bullshit.

Better look around you...say bullshit too often means that you're standing
knee deep in it.

 RB> I just don't happen to be as extreme in my views as some,

Nor very smart.

 RB> try to see both sides of an issue, and I'm capable of changing
 RB> my mind when the circumstances warrant that.

LOL! You've been weaned on uro bullshit for too long.

 RB> The only thing we may agree on is that given the choice between Bush
 RB> and Gore, I also reluctantly would have picked Bush. But that's, as
 RB> the Germans say, a choice between the devil and beelzebub (also known
 RB> as a choice between cholera and plague).

Until there's a way to force the more qualified people to run for office,
that's all we'll ever get for choices. Of course, a pay raise for the
President might work wonders.

                R\%/itt



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