Text 21318, 80 rader
Skriven 2008-09-27 12:20:02 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 21298 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Languages
=================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Saturday September 27 2008 at
00:40:

MV>>> And I am a native Dutch speaker, living not in the USA, but in The
MV>>> Netherlands, 60 km from the German border. I speak German, and *I*
MV>>> say German and Dutch are very different languages.

RB>> They are, but are closely related.

MV> That depends on your definition of "close". German and Dutch certainly
MV> are not as close as Dutch and Suid Afrikaans, and even the latter can
MV> not be understood without some exposure.

However, they are basically the same language, like American and British
English. Don't forget the original settlers in South Africa, the so-called
Boers, were Dutch. Afrikaans is just a localized version of archaic Dutch and
shouldn't be impossible for a modern Dutchman to understand at least passably.

MV> German and Dutch are *different* languages.

True, but still stem from the same Germanic root.

MV> A Dutchman who has never been exposed to German wil *not* understand
MV> it.

At all? And it will not even sound familiar? I have difficulty believing that,
as I encountered Dutch for the first time when even my German was not that
good.

MV> The other way around will be easier.

Why?

RB>> but still there are a lot of roots that are similar.

MV> There are also differences and these differences make German a
MV> language that is hard to master for the Dutch. Understanding is not
MV> too hard, but correctly speaking or writing is hard. The main problem
MV> are these cases. English is much easier for a Dutchman.

I would think it's not so much the cases as the genders. There are three in
German, and even I make mistakes sometimes after more than 40 years of
experience. The cases (grammar) were what really clobbered me in French... even
today, my French is lousy for just that reason. German grammar is easier, at
least for me.

RB>> I've been told north German Platt dialect is pretty close to Dutch,

MV> It isn't.

Since I don't speak Platt myself, I can't say anything to that.

MV> To an outsider it may "sound" similar, but then to me Russian, Polish
MV> and Czjech soud the same too. So do Chinese and Japanese.

Russian, Polish and Czech are all slavic languages, Michael, and also have
similar roots. It's not just a case of "sounds familiar". As for Chinese and
Japanese, I can't venture an opinion, as I only know a few words in either
language.

MV> Dutch and German may have common roots, but don't let that fool you
MV> into thinking that they are all that close.

As you remarked, it's a question of what you consider "close". Compare Spanish,
Italian and French sometime and I think you'll be surprised at the
similarities. I'm still grateful I was forced to take Latin in high school,
although I hated it at the time, as it's been a valuable base for understanding
other languages.

MV> I can not rule out that that professor friend of Roy understands
MV> Dutch, but then that is because he studied it. A native German - and
MV> certainly not a German living in the US - will not understand Dutch
MV> without previous exposuer.

I tend to agree, but let's let Roy explain if he cares to.

Cheers, Bob

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