Text 22397, 111 rader
Skriven 2008-10-22 13:07:04 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 22377 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
Ärende: Socialism in the US of A
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22 Oct 08 01:55, Ward Dossche wrote to Roy Witt:


 RW>> You wouldn't, if you knew the history behind it. Perhaps you're
 RW>> unaware that Hitler and Franco were allies and that Hitler helped
 RW>> Franco win the Spanish Revolution of 1936.

 WD> You may believe I'm an idiot, but please don't take it all the way.
 WD> Our upstairs neighbour when I was young was a Spanish refugee.

Keep in mind that my MIL was also a Spaniard who grew up during that era.

 RW>> Dutch Shell Oil supplied the Nazi Army, while Standard Oil of NJ
 RW>> supplied the Nazi air force.

 WD> So the Kriegsmarine got their oil from whom then? ;-)

Argentina, Mexico; take your choice.

 RW>> WD> See the fate of Graf Spee in Montevideo which had to sail
 RW>> without WD> repairs.

 RW>> That's the one that was scuttled by the crew, just outside of an
 RW>> Argentine
 RW>> (neutral) port. Afraid to run the British gauntlet, set up to
 RW>> intercept in RW> international waters.

 WD> Montevideo is Uruguay, not Argentine.

Correct.

 WD> Graf Spee had no options.

They were given three by Adolph himself.

Adolf Hitler responded personally to Captain Langsdorff, writing the
following in his own handwriting:

"Attempt by all means to extend time in neutral waters in order to
guarantee freedom of action as long as possible. Fight your way through to
Buenos Aires, using remaining ammunition. No internment at Uruguay.
Attempt effective destruction of ship if scuttled."

 WD> It easily outgunned the Allies (2 light cruisers and a heavy), it
 WD> also could outrun them. British ships relied on steamturbines to
 WD> propell the shaft while Graf Spee and its siblings used very large
 WD> diesels directly connected to the shaft which made them several knots
 WD> faster.

The fact that the hulls were welded rather than rivoted like Britsh ships
added lightness and speed to the Spee.

But the real problem was, a shortage of fuel. Not to mention the heavy
destruction of most weapons topside.

 WD> However, it received heavy oil in its tanks from the Altmark (Graf
 WD> Spee's supply vessel) which it couldn't use. It had to be run through
 WD> a special steam-based separator-plant to pre-clean the fuel, then it
 WD> could go to the diesels.

Yeup.

 WD> During it's battle with Achilles (New Zealand), Exeter and Ajax the
 WD> steamplant was knocked out of action by Exeter. At that time Graf
 WD> Spee had pre-cleaned fuel for 16 hours.

Estimated.

 WD> When it entered Montevideo there was way less. It was quickly
 WD> established the ship could not be repaired within 24hrs.

Thus Adolphs orders. See above.

 WD> The Brits kinda recklessly afforded it another 48hrs by sailings of 2
 WD> British freighters

Since there are several ways to leave Montevido by sea, those three ships
you mentioned had to cover all bases.

 WD> ... the rules of engagement are that when a heavy unit enters a
 WD> neutral port it must give 24hrs headstart to any enemy freighter.

Yes, which meant that the merchants you mentioned, were ordered to leave
in 24 hour increments, thus holding Spee in port while the British played
a ruse to make Langsdorff think he was out-numbered.

 WD>  So the Brits let 2 freighters leave with near 24hr interval so Graf
 WD> Spee remained locked-up while Cumberland raced north to replace the
 WD> heavily damaged Exeter.

 WD> The extra 48hrs proved not enough and Hitler ordered her scuttled as
 WD> there was no way she could outrun for more than 7 hrs the Brits.

Those orders came before he made port in Montevido.

 WD> For more than 60 yrs Graf Spee was a shipping hazard. The wreck has
 WD> now been bought by a private company which is raising it to restore
 WD> it to a museum-worthy condition on land. I hope I'll live to see the
 WD> completion as I would love to visit it.

On another note; Captain Langsdorff committed suicide three days later by
shooting himself, in order to prove he had not acted out of fear for his
own life. He was the only crew member who didn't salute the ship with the
Nazi salute when she went down.

                R\%/itt



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