Text 22902, 125 rader
Skriven 2008-10-30 11:28:32 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: Loyalties
=================
Hello Jeff,

On Wednesday October 29 2008 19:57, you wrote to me:

 MV>> It is a fool who makes decisions based on belief only.

 JS>     Then the world is comprised of fools.

A lot of fools are walking this planet. Yes indeed.

 JS> I submit that many decide and act upon what they believe at a
 JS> particular moment. If they were to wait to decide based on what they
 JS> knew to be a proven fact. Very little if anything would get decided.

Often enough no decision is better than the wrong decision.

And in case it isn't, it is not so that a decision based on belief alone is the
ony alternative. I often find myself in the that situation. My girl friend
often asks me "Why didn't you take *that* space?", when I turn into *this*
space in the parking lot. My answer always is: "because I can not keep standing
here making up my mind. If I wait too long, *both* spaces will be taken by
others. The one is not significantky better on first sight and it is not worse
a thorough investigation, so I just pick one at random.

 JS>>> If Hussein had been able to buy/steal/aquire WMD's I have little
 JS>>> doubt that he would have.

 MV>> The fact is that he didn't.

 JS>     And you know that to be a fact?

I accept it as fact.

And that is not based on belief but on the verifiable fact that lots of people
have tried very hard to find those WMD'd and they were unable to provide any
evidence that there were any after 1979 or so.

 JS>>> His consistant jerking around of the UN inspectors showed
 JS>>> that he (Hussein) didn't want the world to know for sure what he
 JS>>> had.

 MV>> Nobody wants to let the worls know exactly what they have.

 JS>     It would seem that if Hussein really wanted to show the world
 JS> how wrong the US/Coalition was he would have made a effort.

Why do you assume that is what he wanted? All he presumably wanted was to
satisfy the UN inspectors.

And.. he DID make an effort. Have you forgotten about that 10.000 poge report
he submitted to the UN?

 JS> I submit that we don't KNOW if Hussein had WMD's and if so to what
 JS> degree.

I submit that we do not know if Belgium has WMD's and to what degree.

Yet the search for WMD'd in Belgium has been a LOT less thorough than the
search in Iraq.

 JS>    But... The same should be said of the US. If the US government
 JS> fealt that it could say that WMD's were in Iraq. The US should have
 JS> been able to provide verification if requested.

And they didnt....

 JS>>> If he was so sincere about wanting people to know the truth he
 JS>>> wouldn't have worked so hard to conceal the truth.

 MV>> It turned out he *was* telling the truth. He kept denying there
 MV>> were WMD's in Iraq and he told the truth.

 JS>     We still don't know that to be true. It is true that to my
 JS> knowledge none were found.

You are suffering from circular reasoning. Like this:

1) He worked very hard to conceal the truth.

2) Therefore he is lying when he says there are no WMD's.

3) That lie proves he is very hard trying to concela the truth.

 MV>> It was George Bush who was the liar, not Saddam Hussein. George
 MV>> Bush claimed he had proof. That was a lie, he could not have had
 MV>> proof. If he had, the WMD's would have been found.

You do not respond to my conclusion that it was George Bush who was the liar.

 JS>>> But, that having been said I am not sorry that Hussein was
 JS>>> removed from power.

 MV>> Look at the mes over there. You really believe the people of Iraq
 MV>> are better off now?

 JS>      Without Hussein there is the possibility of a better life.

Under Saddam most of them *had* a better life.

 JS> That is if external interests and manipulation are removed.

It was externals interests and manipulation that got the Iraqi people in this
mess in the first place.

Don'get me wrong. Saddam was a ruthless dictator, no argumemnt there.

But the cure of removing him had side effects that were worse than the disease.
Some that couls have and *was* foreseen by many.

 JS> The US's part should only be to allow the Iraqies to govern
 JS> themselves.

Governing themselves is what the were doing before the US interfered...

 JS> But that is what SHOULD be. What IS is the result of differant groups
 JS> all trying to further their own agenda.

That is what often happens when you remove a dictator from power.

You (you Americans) had been warned....

Cheers, Michiel

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