Text 22956, 144 rader
Skriven 2008-10-30 15:08:02 av Lee Lofaso (3:800/432.0)
  Kommentar till text 22875 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: Loyalties
=================
Hello Jeff,

>JS>If Hussein had been able to buy/steal/aquire WMD's I have little
>JS>doubt that he would have.

>MV>The fact is that he didn't.

JS>And you know that to be a fact?

George W. Bush claimed he knew stockpiles of wmd exists in Iraq.
IOW, George W. Bush lied, given he had no such proof.  If he had
such proof, he would have been able to produce it.

>JS>His consistant jerking around of the UN inspectors showed
>JS>that he (Hussein) didn't want the world to know for sure what he
>JS>had.

>MV>Nobody wants to let the worls know exactly what they have.

JS>It would seem that if Hussein really wanted to show the world
JS>how wrong the US/Coalition was he would have made a effort. I submit
JS>that we don't KNOW if Hussein had WMD's and if so to what degree.

Everybody (including the United Nations) knew that George W. Bush's
claim was bogus.

JS>But... The same should be said of the US. If the US government
JS>fealt that it could say that WMD's were in Iraq. The US should have
JS>been able to provide verification if requested.

The burden of proof was on George W. Bush.  He could not produce
any proof of his wild claim because he had no such proof.  That is
why everybody knows George W. Bush lied.

>JS>If he was so sincere about wanting people to know the truth he
>JS>wouldn't have worked so hard to conceal the truth.

>MV>It turned out he *was* telling the truth. He kept denying there were
>MV>WMD's in Iraq and he tld the truth.

JS>We still don't know that to be true.

Show me those stockpiles of wmd that George W. Bush claims exist in
Iraq.  You can't?  Don't feel bad.  Neither could George W. Bush.

JS>It is true that to my knowledge none were found.

It is to everybody's knowledge (including George W. Bush) that no such
stockpiles of wmd exist in Iraq.  If such stockpiles of wmd did exist
and had been found, those stockpiles of wmd would have been produced
as evidence for all to see.  And if such stockpiles of wmd did exist
in Iraq, those stockpiles of wmd would have been found.  But since no
such stockpiles of wmd has ever been found to exist in Iraq, we all
know that George W. Bush told a lie.  Not just any lie, but a Big Lie.

>MV>It was George Bush who was the liar, not Saddam Hussein. George Bush
>MV>claimed he had proof. That was a lie, he could not have had proof. If
>MV>he had, the WMD's would have been found.

>JS>But, that having been said I am not sorry that Hussein was
>JS>removed from power.

Oh, we just removed one tinpot dictator and had him replaced with
another tinpot dictator.  You call that success?

>MV>Look at the mes over there. You really believe the people of Iraq are
>MV>better off now?

JS>Without Hussein there is the possibility of a better life.

People have been killing each other left and right in that part
of the world ever since time began.  Saying those people have the
possibility of a better life may not actually be a lie, but it
certainly is a ludicrous statement.  After all, a possibility is
just that.  A possibility.  No matter how great or small.

With Hussein in power Sunnis felt they had the possibility of a
better life.  With the removal of Hussein from power, Sunnis felt
they had no possibility for a better life, knowing Shiite hit squads
would be knocking on their door.  Shiites, on the other hand, felt
they did indeed have the possibility of a better life, especially
given that fewer and fewer Sunnis would be around.

JS>That is if external interests and manipulation are removed. The US's
JS>part should only be to allow the Iraqies to govern themselves. But
JS>that is what SHOULD be. What IS is the result of differant groups all
JS>trying to further their own agenda.

We allowed the president of Iraq to be murdered by a Shiite hit
squad.  In fact, we insisted upon it.  And then, once the deed was
done, we called it justice.

>JS>But I think it was wrong to do so prior to having the verified
>JS>proof. Personally I think the whole WMD thing had little to do
>JS>with the real reasons that some people of office(s) wanted an end
>JS>to the Hussein regime.

>MV>of course. The WMD issue was just an excuse for the invasion. And when
>MV>it fell apart another excuse was made up after the fact: to free the
>MV>people of an evil dictator and bring democracy. Wel, we all can see
>MV>how good that worked out.

>MV>And now that there is a lot more than just claims and stories,
>MV>you are the one saying there is no proof?

>JS>I think Bush was hoping.

Bush wasn't hoping for anything.  Bush knew it was all a lie from
the get-go.  So did Colin Powell, who made that silly presentation
to the United Nations on behalf of his scumbag of a president.

>MV>Bush is an idiot. He knew that he had no proof, and so he could have
>MV>known that they woild not be found or that insufficient evidence would
>MV>be uncovered to convince the world that they were ever there. No, what
>MV>he hoped for was that "bringing democracy to Iraq" would be a success
>MV>and that therefore the original reasons given would soon be forgotten.
>MV>All's well that ends well.

>MV>Many people warned Bush that it probably would not end well, but he
>MV>refused to listen. The result is more death than were ever on the tab
>MV>of Saddam Hussein, the region destabilized for generations and the
>MV>credibility of the US down the drain.

>MV>The lies of the shrub, Abu Graib and the Gitmo Hotel won't be forgoten
>MV>that soon....

>JS>Bush should have been straight about his reasons.

>MV>Had he been honest he would never have gotten enough support for the
>MV>invasion.

JS>If that was the result of being honest then I could have lived with
JS>that. But we're talking politicians here Michiel. Honesty is not a job
JS>requirement. <g>

President Pinocchio could not have had a longer nose.

--Lee


 * SLMR 2.1a * This clown is an equal opportunity asshole.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)