Text 22994, 132 rader
Skriven 2008-11-01 02:59:46 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
  Kommentar till text 22990 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
Ärende: Loyalties
=================
Hello Ward.

01 Nov 08 00:01, you wrote to me:

 WD> Jeff,

 JS>> Bush lying about his asertion that Hussein had WMD's was wrong.
 JS>> But that is not proof that there were or were not WMD's or that if
 JS>> they existed that Hussein didn't manage to dismantle and smuggle
 JS>> them out.

 WD> You just do not dismantle the kind of installations they were looking
 WD> for and make 'm dissappear. Same for the alleged stockpiles of
 WD> whatever. This is potent stuff that will leave definite traces when
 WD> dumped or incinerated below 1600øC ... and there is no such
 WD> incinerator in Iraq. Ergo: there were no WMD's.

     As I recall the inspectors (Among others) who were looking for
some of whaat you mention above were denied access to search for
and determine their existance. As I have already stated. If Hussein
wanted to show the the world how wrong the US was. The easyest way
would have been to let the UN inspectors search and find none. Yet
Hussein chose to deny them access and hinder their movement within
Iraq.


 JS>> Then why did the UNMOVIC present a report to the Security Council
 JS>> on Hussein's dismantling of missile and WMD sites before and
 JS>> during the war?

 WD> The only missile sites there were, were the mobile scud-launchers.
 WD> They were just blow-up with dynamite.

 WD> WMD-sites, whatever that may be, were never found. Of course there
 WD> were a number of chemical factories, what do you expect? All the rest
 WD> is propaganda to justify the war.

 JS>> Umm... Lee I said that none were found. That wasn't a statement
 JS>> that they never existed. I challenge you to provide proof that
 JS>> they never existed.

 WD> I challenge you to provide proof that 9/11 was not an inside job. If
 WD> you fail to prove that is that then valid proof that it was?

     I can't. Just as Lee or you can't prove the (non)existance of
WMD's. We mostly go by what we read, see on the tele, and hear from
others. About as far from proof of anything as one can get I would
say.

     Bush I think stated that he acted on what he was told from
others. I would imagine that he was indeed told that there
were/probably were WMD's by others including other politicians, the
intelegence community, and info from other countries. I don't take
that as proof either. I think Bush was wrong for using the WMD's
as a reason unless he had verification. I suspect that Bush hoped that
something would be found.

 JS>> Do a little research Lee. Check and see how many differant
 JS>> sources (Both US and international) including reports fron the UN
 JS>> inspectors claiming that Hussein had WMD's.

 WD> UN inspectors never claimed nor reported such a thing. They were
 WD> looking and concluded there weren't any ... what anybody with half a
 WD> brain was already convinced of. Bush aka the USA needed a scapegoat
 WD> for 9/11 since the campaign in Afghanistan was a failure.


 WD> Bush aka the USA were simply going to attack Iraq ... whatever ...
 WD> <period>.

     On that point I would have to agree.


 WD> The main railline from Germany to the port of Antwerp here in Belgium
 WD> passes a stone's throw from my house. At some point, without really
 WD> war rethoric, we started counting 75 daily transports with US military
 WD> equipment destined for ships in a remote part of the port.

 WD> All vehicles, guns, cars, armoured personnel carriers, you name it ...
 WD> were already painted in desert colours instead of the standard green
 WD> for equipment on the German Rhine plateau.

 WD> We're talking thousands and thousands of tonnes of paint which had
 WD> been needed to do that. That paint had to be ordered via military
 WD> procurement chanels ... very time consuming ... paint needed to be
 WD> transported to Germany ... equipment needed to painted ...

 WD> I will tell you this: the plans to invade Iraq were put in motion the
 WD> day of the Presidential inauguration in 2001 because otherwise it
 WD> would have been logistically impossible.

 JS>> You are free to whatever opinion you choose Lee. I would say that
 JS>> it is too soon to tell. We know to some degree what life was like
 JS>> under Hussein's rule of Iraq and his treatment of the Iraq people.
 JS>> Are conditions better now in Iraq? Not yet but at least there is
 JS>> the chance for conditions to improve. Or would you prefer Hussein?

 WD> Life in the Iraq of Saddam Hussein indeed was better than what it is
 WD> now:

 WD> * There was no sectarian violence
 WD> * The university of Baghdad was among the top-20 in the world
 WD> * Women were very western-like and had full equal rights to men. They
 WD> wore fashionable clothing. No need for a burka. * There were no
 WD> shortages of food * People were not obliged by the constitution to 5
 WD> times a day get down on their knees and point their asses north. *
 WD> Christian churches were allowed, now they are outlawed * Iraqi Airways
 WD> was a trustworthy airline. Where is it now? * There was no shortage of
 WD> energy. * The world's oil prices remained relatively low because of
 WD> renegade pumping

 WD> Saddam, Jeff, was not Iraq, it is totally wrong to identify him with
 WD> the country for every aspect of society at that time.

 WD> Yes, the man was a dictator. So? Is more than 150,000 killed Iraqi
 WD> civilians a good price for his head? ... as well as 4,000+ fine
 WD> American servicemen and -women?

 WD> Several here have predicted that it would have been silly to invade.
 WD> We were laughed at, mocked, ridiculed ... 6 years into a war with no
 WD> end-scenario anywhere in sight.

 WD>  \%/@rd

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 WD> (2:292/854)

Jeff

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