Text 23110, 88 rader
Skriven 2008-11-04 11:44:26 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: An unconvenient truth
=============================
Hello Jeff,

On Tuesday November 04 2008 01:07, you wrote to me:

 JS>     I disagree. The lack of the existance of WMD's at a particular
 JS> moment does not prove that they did not exist at some point prior to
 JS> that moment.

And that there is no pink unicorn in my living room right now, does not prove
that there never was one....

 MV>> If there is proof that something exists, one must be able to provide.
 MV>> Either the proof or the goods. But he didn't. Ergo: he lied when he
 MV>> claimed to have proof.

 MV>> *That* is the onconvenient truth you will have to face....

 JS>     I have never supported Bush's use of WMD's as a reason for the
 JS> war in Iraq. Unlike the "Missles of October" there was no evidence
 JS> to support Bush's claim.

So you voted for Kerry in 2004?

 JS> To what degree Bush was deliberate in his claim or just misinformed is
 JS> unclear. Regardless, he made the decision to use the WMD's as a
 JS> reason.

Indeed, he made the dcisision and for that he should be held responsible.

 MV>> George Bush did not just say he believed Saddam to have WMD's, he
 MV>> said he had *proof*.

 JS>      Is that what he was told or was that what he believed to be true?

He is the chief in command, he is responsible. If his intelligence misinformed
him - for which there is no proof - he is responsible anyway, as they were
operating under his command.

It was Bush that made the desision to go tho war, and he used the WMD's as an
excuse. For that he is responsible.

 JS> Or, did he specifically know there were no WMD's? Does it really
 JS> matter Michiel?

It does not matter to you that your elected president is a liar?

I'll tell you what: it matters to me that the most powerful man in the world is
a liar and a war monger who is responsible for the death of hundreds of
thousands of people. He should be in The Hague next to Taylor, Mladidsj and
Karadidsj.

 MV>> Face it Jeff: Your elected president lied to you and the American
 MV>> people believed it. An estimated 150 to 600 thousand people died

 JS>      And how many of those are estimated deaths versus confirmed
 JS> deaths?

Does it really matter? What if it was "only" one hundred thousand? You will
still have to face the inconveneient truth...

 JS>  How many untold thousands of people would have continued to
 JS> die under the Hussein dictatorship and for how many years?

We do not know that. What we do know is that Saddam Hussein was no longer in
charge after the invasion and therefore not responsible any more. The US
invaded Iraq, and are terefore responsible for the death that resulted.

 JS> The one thing that I will say is that the Hussein evil was a known
 JS> quantity in Iraq. But I also continue to think that a chance for a
 JS> better life for the Iraqi people is better than no chance.

Beliefs do not make facts. And the fact is that Iraq ia in a mess with no peace
in sight.

 MV>> because of that dreadful mistake.

 JS>     Whether it was a mistake or not all depends on who you ask.

And whether Neil Armstrong actually set foot on the moon or if it was all
filmed in the Nevada Desert depends on who you ask...

Some day however y'all with have to face the inconvenient truth...


Cheers, Michiel

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