Text 23480, 134 rader
Skriven 2008-11-08 09:12:22 av Lee Lofaso (3:800/432.0)
  Kommentar till text 23364 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Loyalties
=================
Hello Roy,

>LL>Clinton was the first elected president to have been impeached.
>LL>But, like Huey P. Long, he was exonerated by the Senate, which
>LL>refused to convict him on any charges brought forth by the House.

>RW>Note that the Senate who refused to find him guilty, were
>RW>a majority of Republicans.

>LL>Most Republicans voted to convict.

RW>Most would have been a majority to convict. They didn't.

There were not enough Republicans in the Senate to convict.

>WD>And, indeed, Nixon was NOT impeached.

>RC>But had he been impeached, he would have been removed from office
>RC>and then later tried and convicted in the criminal courts..

>LL>Had Nixon been impeached, I doubt his trial would even have been
>LL>brought forth by the Senate.

>RW>A Constitutional requirement is to bring a Presidential impeachment
>RW>before the Senate, with the USSC's Chief Justice presiding.

>LL>Doesn't say when.

RW>Tomorrow, today, makes no difference.

It makes all the difference in the world.  If the Senate refuses
to put the president on trial in a timely manner, no verdict could
be reached.

>RW>It's not as cut and dry as you mistakenly proclaim.

>LL>It is that simple.  And I am not mistaken.
>LL>Article I, Section III, Clause VI and VII.

RW>You are mistaken.

I am dead on.  Read the fucking Constitution and you'll understand
why.  I have already done half your homework, having pointed out the
relevant parts.

>RC>However his resignation made impeachment a moot point and
>RC>Ford's pardon of him made any prospect of criminal prosecution
>RC>a impossibility.

>LL>Ford made a deal with Nixon in order to get the vice presidency.
>LL>And we all know what that deal was.

>RW>Odd that.

>LL>Nothing odd about it.

RW>No, the entire statement is odd, since he was VP before Nixon resigned.

And how, pray tell, do you figure he got to be vice president?
Nixon was not going to offer the vice presidency to just anybody.
Nixon was only going to offer the vice presidency to someone who
would let him off the hook in regards to Watergate (and all other
crimes committed).  That man was Ford, given that Ford was up to
his fucking eyeballs in Watergate.

>RW>Ford was already next in line to be President, should 'anything'
>RW>prevent Nixon from performing the duties himself.

>LL>The deal was to pardon Nixon upon attaining the presidency.

RW>That was a moot point, since they were both in office by 1972.

It was not a moot point, given that Nixon would have prosecuted
and convicted had he not been given a presidential pardon.

>LL>Why would Ford agree to do such a thing?

RW>What ever his reasoning was his perogative.

Ford did not want Nixon to spill the beans in regards to Ford's
own criminal wrongdoing.  That is the real reason as to why Ford
granted Nixon a presidential pardon.

>LL>Because he had no choice.
>LL>His only option was to refuse Nixon's offer to name him vice
>LL>president. And Ford wasn't going to do that, knowing Nixon's days
>LL>were numbered.

RW>At least 13 months in the future.

It was a given that Nixon was going to resing from office.  Nixon
may have been hoping to avoid that fate, but once it became clear
to him the alternative was worse, Nixon resigned.

>LL>We all know Ford did pardon Nixon.
>LL>We all know Ford denied any deal was made.

RW>That's his perogative.

ford lied.  That was indeed his perogative.  Just like it was
George W. Bush's perogative to lie about non-existent stockpiles
of WMD in Iraq.

>LL>We also know Nixon would not have left anything to chance.
>LL>Nixon had some shit on Ford in order to force Ford's hand.

RW>Not at all.

Nixon would not have chosen Ford as vice president unless he had
some shit on him.  That was Nixon's leverage.

RW>The next in line for the Presidency without a VP is the Speaker
RW>of the House. Giving the office up to a Democrat was out of the
RW>question.

Hence Nixon's refusal to resign until after Ford was confirmed as
vice president.  Remember, Agnew had resigned the vice presidency,
opening the position for somebody else.  Of course, Nixon could
have chosen not to replace the vice presidency with anybody, as
Truman chose to do.  But Nixon was no Harry Truman.

>LL>But let's assume no deal was made.

RW>No more time to waste on conjecture. Especially yours.

Out of arguments again?  That's no surprise...

--Lee


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