Text 25750, 143 rader
Skriven 2009-01-08 11:59:40 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 25705 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Attitudes
=================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday January 07 2009 at
13:48:

MV> You really should do something about your news sources. Hamas has
MV> stated they will recognise the 1967 status quo. That is an implicit
MV> recognition of the state of Israel.

Very implicit indeed, and there was nothing about stopping attacks on Israel.

MV>>> Forget who says what and look at who is doing what. Now who is
MV>>> trying to drive who into the sea?

RB>> Hamas the Israelis, and the Israelis are tring to prevent their
RB>> population from being attacked. The fact the Hamas has a brain tumour
RB>> leding to murderous aggression doesn't reflect on the Israelis.

MV> You hatred is clouding your judgement. While the people of Gaza are no
MV> angels, the rocket attacks had virtually stopped after the cease fire.

Your big blue eyes are having trouble seeing the realities. The so-called
"cease fire" before the Israelis got tough was broken daily with rocket
attackes on settlements to the north and east. If they had stopped, which was
the agreement, there would have been no reason for Israel to defend it's
people, since they wouldn't have been in danger.

MV> You seemed to have missed that it was Israel that broke the cease fire
MV> on November 5th by killing six alleged Hamas members. Killing a
MV> handful of innocent bystanders in the process.

And how many Israelis were terrorized by Hamas rockets before that happened?
Your idea of "peaceful behavior" appears to be sitting back and letting
terrorists do what they will to your population without striking back to
eliminate the source.

MV> Bob, the must have been planning this for a long time. They have been
MV> provoking Hamas to resume the rocket attacks...

You confuse cause with effect. No rocket attacks, no retaliation by the
Israelis. If there was any provocation, it was by Hamas, in the hope and
expection that the outside world will react as you do, namely ignore Hamas
terrorism and weep over the unintended and undesired civilian casualties caused
by Israeli retaliation because Hamas uses things like schools and mosques as
weapons depots and staging areas for rocket attacks. It's easy for a terrorist
to use helpless civilians as human shields, and when one of the civilians gets
hurt to blame those who attack the terrorists instead of the terrorists
themselves for the damage. But it's dead wrong to play into the terrorist's
hands and go along with the fiction that not the terrorist, but his opponent,
is the aggressor.

[The Israelis]
MV> They do not fool me.

No Hamas and their ilk fool you.

MV> Israel does not want to live in peace with the Palestinians. They do
MV> not say it aloud, but actions speak louder than words. What they want
MV> is to eliminate them.

Frankly, I couldn't think badly of them if that actually were the case, since
after all theye years I would believe most Israelis have had really enough of
Palastinian screaming, hysterics, suicide bombs, rockets and what have you, to
really want them GONE. However, I think you're wrong in your above assumption,
since in contrast to Hamas and their ilk, the Israelis are a civilized people.
They will defend their citizens, but will not attack others without cause. The
only problem is that they are given cause nearly every day by people who are
more interested in keeping the Palastinians in misery (to keep and increase
their own political power) than solving the numerous problems that exist in the
area.

MV> And the sad thing is that they will not succeed. Al Israel will
MV> achieve is that that another generation of Palestinians are crested
MV> that want revenge. This is good for another 30 years of conflict.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Give the terrorists what they want and
cut your own throat. Don't give them that "little peasure" and they'll fight
you (naturally with surrogates such as excitable young people to take the real
heat) to the death. I'd kill a few of the old men who whip up the young
hotbloods (some as young as 14) to carry explosive vests into Israeli
territory. Those are the real criminals.

MV>>> But remember what I said about winning a guerrilla war against an
MV>>> enemy fighting on its own territory.

And you think the Israelis are not in their own country? Incidently, how is the
Netherlands dealing with muslim terrorists nowadays? Do successful terrorists
get a bottle of champagne courtesy of the government? I doubt it.

EVERY counry has the right and duty to protect it's citizens, and Israel is no
exception. I do wish you could at least understand that. The Israelis are no
angels, but who started the war in 1947 and has kept it going to this day? And
who has lost a good deal of the territory granted to them in the original
partition of Palestine in the process? And who is now weeping because the
Israelis retaliate when their citizens are threatened with bodily harm?

RB>> Trouble is, that applies on territory that is accessible to friends
RB>> of the terrorists.

MV> When i claimed the US could not win in Afghanistan and Iraq, you said
MV> it was different from Vietnam. Well, the Taliban is de facto in
MV> control in Afghanistan and there is no peace in iraq.

You exaggerate greatly, and neither of these arab countries are Vietnam.

MV> The trouble with a guerrilla war is that it only takes a handful of
MV> "freedom fighters" to keep the game going. Plus that rocket science
MV> isn't rocket science any more. the rocket attacks will continue as
MV> long as there is one man standing. So to stop it, Israel will either
MV> have to eliminate all people in Gaza. Or.. ,they will have to start
MV> talking, real talking in which the Palestians get offered more than a
MV> life in an open prison.

All that takes are people willing to talk and negotiate instead of screaming
hysterically with hate - and weeping piteously when the people they try to kill
hit back. You know, not even Egypt and Saudi Arabia are condemning the Israelis
this time, both of them showing some irritation at Hamas for provoking this
recent action. Maybe you should take a look at what _they_ are saying. Possibly
you'll believe _them_.

RB>> Lebanon, with a nice border to Syria, with a nice border to Iran, is
RB>> one thing. Gaza, with a border to Israel on one side and to Egypt on
RB>> the other - and the Egyptians meanwhile with a bellyfull of fighting
RB>> losing wars for their "arab brothers" - is quite another. And Israel
RB>> knows that, even if Hamas is so busy screaming and plying with their
RB>> collective dicks that they haven't realized it yet. They will.

MV> I repeat: One can not win a guerrilla war against an enemy fighting on
MV> its own territory.

Israel IS on it's own territory. The Syrians and Iranians in Lebanon, and
possibly in Gaza, are NOT.

Cheers, Bob

P.S. I might remind you that the parts of Gaza where Israelis lived were
prosperous and well taken care of BEORE Israel removed all it's citizens and
gave the whole territory to the Palastinians. Perfect infrastructure, well-kept
buildings and all the rest. And what has Hamas done with all that wealth and
prosperity? Right - kept the best parts for the higher-ups in the organization
and destroyed the rest. Some people turn even the nicest neighborhood into a
garbage dump. How would YOU like to have such neighbors?

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