Text 27393, 83 rader
Skriven 2009-02-10 20:49:14 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 27376 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Maybe, baby...
======================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Tuesday February 10 2009 at
13:16:

MV>>> There is no profit in basic research.

RB>> Tell that to Roche, Sandoz and the rest. They made and probably still
RB>> make extremely good money with the pharmaceuticals their basic
RB>> research produced.

MV> That is *not* basic research. It is *applied* research. I would not
MV> even call it science. It is engineering.

Chemicals are synthesized, tested for effects and the results evaluated. But
first the chemicals must be there, with no guarantee that any one will be the
"big" one. However, the _desire_ for a success is there.

Anyway, calling such work "applied research" is an artificial and not really
honest method of attemptiung to denigrate it. The people who do that kind of
work aren't auto mechanics or hacks, but real professionals who know better
chemistry than I ever did.

MV> What profit is there in astronomy? In detecting gravity waves
MV> emanating from colliding black holes?? What profit in the Hubbke
MV> telescope? The Large Hadron Collider?

An understanding of the universe can concieveably bring benefits at some point,
and I assume the work you mention above is carefully studied by the people
planning the Mars mission - among others.

[Serendipity]
RB>> But such things are the exceptions, not the rule,

MV> On the contrary. Most major scientific discoveries were accidental.

I disagree, of course - particularly in today's scientific world. "Most" is a
gross exaggeration.

RB>> I _did_ mention the tradition of public service. It doesn't exist in
RB>> that form in Germany, and I suspect it's a typical part of the
RB>> American "pioneer" spirit.

MV> And you really believe these donations would continue without tax
MV> benefits? Out of the goodness of their hearts? O c'mon...

As I mentioned, this emphasis on public service doesn't exist in Germany, and
your comment indicates there is no difference in the Netherlands.

Yes, it would continue. Contributing to universities and scools has been a
tradition in the States since long before the introduction of the income tax in
- I believe - 1910.

MV> You really believe a modern society without taxes can exist? Then
MV> explain to me why there is no place in earth where there are no taxes.
MV> If it is such a good idea why at least did no one try?

Show me a ruler who doesn't like money, and a government that doesn't like to
spend money that it doesn't have to provide itself. Then you've got a country
where such an idea would be practical.

MV> Why don't *you* try it? Find an uninhabited island and found a
MV> soeciety wiithut taxes. See how far you get....

It's illegal, Michiel. There was an English guy in the 1920s who tried
something like that and even minted coins called "Puffins", but the soverignty
was never recognized by anyone and that was that.

There's a nice illustration of one of the coins and a bit of the history at:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38249

Still, if you want to see the direction something like that could take, you
might glance at the Slovenian tax system. It was designed from scratch by
several German economists after the country became independent, and is based on
_single_ taxation of income, no taxes on capital gains or interest, no death
taxes. The multiple taxation of the same money we have in Germany, and that
also exists in the States and presumably in the Netherlands, doesn't exist
there. Seems to work pretty well for the Slovenians, who were the first of the
former Yugoslavian states to join the EU and also the first to adopt the Euro.

Cheers, Bob

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