Text 27425, 108 rader
Skriven 2009-02-12 00:13:05 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Maybe, baby...
======================
Hello Robert,

On Tuesday February 10 2009 20:49, you wrote to me:

 MV>> That is *not* basic research. It is *applied* research. I would
 MV>> not even call it science. It is engineering.

 RB> Chemicals are synthesized, tested for effects and the results
 RB> evaluated. But first the chemicals must be there, with no guarantee
 RB> that any one will be the "big" one. However, the _desire_ for a
 RB> success is there.

No argument, but I still say it is applied research.

 RB> Anyway, calling such work "applied research" is an artificial and not
 RB> really honest method of attemptiung to denigrate it. The people who do
 RB> that kind of work aren't auto mechanics or hacks, but real
 RB> professionals who know better chemistry than I ever did.

It is not meant in a denigrating way. I very much respect engineers. Theories
alone do not put a man on the moon or make a hard drive spin. Engineering is
just as essential in making things work as basic research. Does not change the
fact that they are two different things.

 MV>> What profit is there in astronomy? In detecting gravity waves
 MV>> emanating from colliding black holes?? What profit in the Hubbke
 MV>> telescope? The Large Hadron Collider?

 RB> An understanding of the universe can concieveably bring benefits at
 RB> some point,

Sure. But there usually elaps a couple of decades before that happens and the
man creating the theory is seldom if ever the man that harvests the monetairy
profits.

Money isn't the drive for people who do basic research. i sure was not fro may
when I choose to go study physics and astronomy. I just wanted to know how the
universe ticks and it gave me great satisfaction to find out so much about it
and understand how things work.

It *still* gives me a kick.

 MV>> On the contrary. Most major scientific discoveries were accidental.

 RB> I disagree, of course - particularly in today's scientific world.
 RB> "Most" is a gross exaggeration.

I disagree.

 MV>> You really believe a modern society without taxes can exist? Then
 MV>> explain to me why there is no place in earth where there are no
 MV>> taxes. If it is such a good idea why at least did no one try?

 RB> Show me a ruler who doesn't like money, and a government that doesn't
 RB> like to spend money that it doesn't have to provide itself. Then
 RB> you've got a country where such an idea would be practical.

IOW, you can not answer the question.

 MV>> Why don't *you* try it? Find an uninhabited island and found a
 MV>> soeciety wiithut taxes. See how far you get....

 RB> It's illegal, Michiel.

By who's law?

 RB> There was an English guy in the 1920s who tried something like that
 RB> and even minted coins called "Puffins", but the soverignty was never
 RB> recognized by anyone and that was that.

T'was to be expected.

You know when I was a kid my cousin and I had this idea of declaring my parents
house an independent state. That way we could circumvent the radio regulations.
We could just write ourselves a license for a braodcast station and go ahead.

But then my cousin asked how we would get the electricity....


 RB> There's a nice illustration of one of the coins and a bit of the
 RB> history at:

 RB> http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38249

 RB> Still, if you want to see the direction something like that could
 RB> take, you might glance at the Slovenian tax system. It was designed
 RB> from scratch by several German economists after the country became
 RB> independent, and is based on _single_ taxation of income, no taxes on
 RB> capital gains or interest, no death taxes. The multiple taxation of
 RB> the same money we have in Germany, and that also exists in the States
 RB> and presumably in the Netherlands,

It does and some parts of it seem pretty unfair.

Then again, whatver sustem you choose, it will appear unfair to some. Can't
please them all...

 RB> doesn't exist there. Seems to work pretty well for the Slovenians, who
 RB> were the first of the former Yugoslavian states to join the EU and
 RB> also the first to adopt the Euro.

Still, they have taxes. Even they can not do without any form of taxes.


Cheers, Michiel

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