Text 27562, 60 rader
Skriven 2009-02-16 16:40:10 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 27554 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Maybe, baby...
======================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Monday February 16 2009 at
14:48:

RB>> My point was that most people could afford to pay their own way if
RB>> the government wouldn't extract the financial means of doing so from
RB>> them in the form of taxes and fees - and then force people to apply
RB>> for...

...handouts of their own money.

MV> I get your point, but the snake under the grass is in "most".

Unfortunately, I don't really think you get my point. I'm no extremist, and am
neither for radical capitalism nor radical socialism. There must be some kind
of aid for people who are unable, for whatever reasons (divorce, unemployment)
to survive unaided. But that should NOT become a kind of "pan et ludi" as in
Roman times, where the "plebs" were kept quiet indefinitely with a dole. That's
the system we presently have, and I'm against it.

MV> I know your POV, it is not your first rant on the subject, but it must
MV> be clear to you now that the majority here prefers a system that those
MV> who can NOT afford to pay their own way, are not left out in the cold.

Which I have never disputed, nor am I for. And your use of the word "rant"
indicates that you haven't understood the first thing about what I really would
like to see.

MV> Frankly I do not understand why, if you so abhor the system here, why
MV> you did not go back to Texas as soon as you found out about it. Surely
MV> it did not take you very long to figure out that taxes are
MV> substantially higher in germany than in Texas?

;-) At the time I came to Germany, that was not the case. Times change. And
what do you mean "abhor"? You use very emotional words for things that, for me,
are simply advantages and disadvantages. Is there NOTHING _you_ dislike about
the Netherlands, nothing you haven't found better elsewhere? And if so, is
there any reason why you should not open your mouth and say so? Is that
"treasonous" in the Netherlands?

RB>> the population becomes "addicted" to government "handouts" (of their
RB>> own money). However, the system does support an army of bureaucrats
RB>> and political "friends" who otherwise would have to look for
RB>> _productive_ employment. So for _some_ it has it's advantages.

MV> You will have to define "productive employment".

Anything people are willing to pay for without being forced to do so.

MV> I'd say that 90% of all employment is non productive in that it does
MV> not contribute to primary needs. What is  "productive" in song
MV> writing?

The fact that people are willing to pay for the records. We aren't talking
about heavy industry, Michiel. If were were, there would be no "productive
industry" in any of the EU countries - only in places like India and China.

Cheers, Bob

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