Text 27680, 161 rader
Skriven 2009-02-21 10:17:14 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 27656 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Retainment bonuses aka competition clauses
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Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday February 20 2009 at
17:24:

RB>> How much extra income do _your_ politicians get

MV> Very little if any.

Certainty or presumption?

RB>> (in addition to their high basic salaries - set by themselves

MV> The salaries are generous, but not excessive. As I said handouts
MV> compared to what the money grabbers at Wall Street gobble up.

And at least work for.

RB>>  - and their tax-free subsidies for presumed "expenses")?

MV> None.

Amazing if true.

RB>> Ours regard their political work as a part-time job and are otherwise
RB>> busy with their "real" businesses, such as an attorney partnership, a
RB>> company or a large agricultural operation. And NO!!! the income from
RB>> those jobs is NOT!!! either reported to the public, nor is it in any
RB>> form offset (much less 1:1) with what they get as a "representative".

MV> Then the situation in Germany is totally different from that in The
MV> Netherlands. Here politicians have to declare ALL side jobs and they
MV> are publicly scrutinised for a conflict of interest. Even a
MV> chairmanship of the local association of goat breeders is looked at
MV> very carefully.

In that case, the situations really are different. Hardly had Gerhard Schroeder
- the last chancellor - pushed through a "Baltic pipeline" to bypass the
Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic states in favor of Gasprom than he was appointed
a director of Gasprom by his good friend, Vladimir Putin.

Hardly had the former Interior Minister Otto Schilly pushed through (against
great opposition by those who prefer to keep personal information confidential,
as stipulated by the German Supreme Court) "biometric" passports with
fingerprints, than he retired and became a director of a company making such
systems. That was too much even for his fellow "representatives", but he's
managed to avoid disclosing the income from that deal on technicalities up to
now.

And plenty more exmples where those came from. Ask about Mr. Bangermann, an
ex-EU director whose job it was to "control" telecommunications. He's now a
director of the Spanish Telecom. That generated a lot of heat even in Germany.

So anytime you ask why I'm so down on politicians, just think of such things
and you have the reason why.

MV> And regarding expenses, if they submit even a bus ticket for
MV> re=embursment, that will be scrutnised if it was really for the cause.
MV> Politicians have been evicted from office for playing games with
MV> declarations, A one time mayor of Rotterdam, former husband of Nelie
MV> Smit Kroes had to resing over just such an issue.

Mayors are small potatoes. Occasionally they cut one down to size here too,
just to "prove" everyone has to obey the same laws. But you'll look hard - and
without success - for a member of a state or national parliament who has
suffered any consequences for "hanky-panky"

RB>> You may think such things are perfectly OK, but I'm not the only one
RB>> in Germany who doesn't.

MV> I do not think everything is perfectly ok, but I think you are
MV> exaggerating and doing them an injustice.

I am? Check out the above examples, and do some more research. And remember I'm
talking about Germany. What you do in the Netherlands is unknown to me. I'd be
pleased if Dutch politicians were more honest than German ones.

MV>>> Now you rae riding your hobby horse again...

RB>> My conviction, you mean.

MV> High taxes *are* your hobby horse. When was the last day you did not
MV> write a messages that did not mention taxes?

When were taxes last reduced and not increased? The latest trick in Germany is
the "Abgeltungssteuer" (flat-rate tax) on investment income - the government
gets 25% of everything direct from the bank. Only problem is that many people
have a basic tax that's lower, and that the "flat rate" only applies to the
income tax, not to things like death tax (it _does_ in Austria, and if I'm not
mistaken is lower as well). So anyone whth a lower tax rate donates an
interest-free loan to the government and - with luck - gets at least the
principal back when he files an income tax return at the end of the year.

RB>> Can you deduct 30% of your income, without receipts, as "business
RB>> expenses" on your income tax? I can't either. Bundestag
RB>> representatives can. Can you earn unlimited income from "part-time
RB>> jobs" without your employer screaming and prohibiting that? Bundestag
RB>> representatives can.

MV> No, and neither can the Dutch politicians.

Good for them and the Dutch. However, make sure that the privelege was not
eliminated at the same time the salaries were increased 50%. That is the German
way of doing things.

MV> I think you are doing them an injustice. Politicians are far from
MV> perfect, but I think the vast majority are honest hard working people
MV> who are doing their job as best as they can. They are well paid for
MV> it, but nothing compared to the obscene amounts elsewhere. her you do
MV> not go into politics if you want to become filthy rich.

You do if you have no education or experience. I call politicians the "best
paid untrained workers in the country" and see no reason whatever to change
that opinion. To earn that kind of money in a normal company, you need a good
education and long years of experience. To become a Bundestag representative,
all you need to do is to be able to drive a cab (Mr. Fischer, our former
Foreign Minister) and throw stones at policemen (although that has been denied,
despite photos indicating the contrary).

MV>>> Indeed. The bank managers got away with millions in bonuses....

RB>> Which, after taxes, are a good deal smaller than on paper. But we
RB>> won't mention that, will we?

MV> Even after taxes, they STILL get away with millions, so why mention
MV> it?

Because I always mention the people who get the most out of a windfall profit.
Otherwise you're just sweeping the dirt under the carpet.

The Germans have a saying that applies well here: "Die Kleinen haengt man, die
Grossen laesst man laufen" (they hang the little guys, and let the big ones off
free).

MV>>> I disagree.

RB>> Doubtless. Someone who has never run a business, much less an auto
RB>> manufacturing business, is _doubtless_ better qualified to run one
RB>> than people who have grown up in the industry.

MV> And you who has never run a government is better qualified to judge
MV> how to run a country?

No, I'd be a lousy politician. Much too honest, much too forthright, not
anywhere enough experience in political intrigues. Iago (the Shakespearian
character) is the kind of guy who makes a successful politician. Smile, and
while smiling stick a knife in your opponent's back.

RB>> Man, where did you grow up? In a politician's family?

MV> No politician no.

MV> I had an uncle (in law) who was a diplomat though. His career was
MV> completed by the post of Dutch ambassador in Washington. He died last
MV> year.

Poor guy. Having to lie for others is worse than lying for yourself. Sorry to
hear that.

Cheers, Bob

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