Text 28637, 119 rader
Skriven 2009-03-06 11:49:50 av Joe Bruchis (1:3828/12.0)
  Kommentar till text 28634 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Rights
==============
Michiel van der Vlist wrote in a message to Joe Bruchis:

 MvdV> Hello Joe,

 MvdV> On Friday March 06 2009 06:59, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>> "Deciding what one believes"??

 MvdV>> What one believes is not a matter of decision. One believes or
 MvdV>> one doesn't. beliefs are irrational, hence not subject to
 MvdV>> rational decision.

 JB> I can decide to accept or reject a belief. I do it all the time.
 JB> Believe me.

 MvdV> Sorry, I am not in the believing bussines. I do in facts,
 MvdV> verifiable facts. 

I won't accept your entire life is based on verfiable facts and I'll prove that
to you. (-:


 MvdV> A misunderstanding, common among believers. That I know that a
 MvdV> sunset is just light from the sun being dispersed and refracted
 MvdV> in the atmosphere causing neurons to be fired in my brain does
 MvdV> not stop me from enjoying the beauty of it. Not at all.

But beauty is what you believe it to be, not a verfiable fact.  See I told you
so.

 JB>   I don't "believe" that's how it's "meant" to be.

 MvdV> "Meant to be" by whom?

In the great scheme of things.


 JB>> If you don't feel it, what can I say except you don't feel it.

 MvdV>> I don't.

 JB> I'm sorry.

 MvdV> For what? Why do believers so often feel sorry for non believers?
 MvdV> They seem to think that we atheists are missing something. I can
 MvdV> assure you that is not how I perceive it. On the contrary, to me
 MvdV> a belief is not an asset, it is a liability. I am happy to be
 MvdV> free of that. Believe me. ;-)

You are not missing anything. You are only deceiving yourself. You recognize
the beauty of a sunset. You said that right after saying you only believe
verifiable facts.  There are no facts relative to the beauty of a sunset.  It
is in the eye of each beholder.

There is much more inner beauty in those that are believers, just as there is
beauty in a sunset. You could never share the same beauty believers do because
you will not attempt to take it in.

 JB> Do you love your wife?

 MvdV> My wife died 13 years ago. One can not love the dead. I remember
 MvdV> her as someone who I loved though.

Does love have a time limit?  Once someone dies, are you saying you no longer
love them? Why?

 MvdV> I now have a new partner. And yes, I love her.

 JB> If so, why?

 MvdV> What an odd question. I can give you a list of things I like
 MvdV> about her, but I can not tell you why I love her. I just do.

"You just do" is a very good answer. That answer also describes why one loves
the Lord. However, love is not quantitative nor is it verifiable. You lose
again.

 JB> Is that a decision you made? If so, based on what?

 MvdV> No. I decided I wanted to spent time with her. Loving her was not
 MvdV> a desicion, that just happened.

Exactly the correct answer.

 JB> Can you play blues guitar? (-:

 MvdV> I am afraid not. I can play "FrŠre Jacques" on the piano but that
 MvdV> is it. I just learned the keystrokes by hearth, I have absolutely
 MvdV> no feeling for it. I would love to be able to play an instrument,
 MvdV> but I just don't have it in me. Oh, well I have other talents...

It would be in you, but I think you might not allow it to be. One has to feel
music to play it.  It's just like love.

 MvdV>> Lots of people are remembered for the bad things they have done...

 JB> I knew you'd go there...

 MvdV> I am getting predictable am I? ;-)

No, maybe just repetitive at times. (-:

 MvdV>> Cheers, Michiel

 JB> Really? Cheers? Naw...

 JB> More like anguish and depression.

 MvdV> You are totally wrong. I am quit happy with what I am and how I
 MvdV> live. 

I'm happy for you. Is that an allowable statement?


Regards,

 Joe 
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