Text 31404, 52 rader
Skriven 2009-04-17 15:32:38 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 31376 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Ärende: Bank Security
=====================
Dale Shipp wrote to Robert Bashe on Thursday April 16 2009 at 23:25:

DS>> The PIN on my debit / ATM card was entered by me.  I did not give nor
DS>> show it to anyone.  I typed it into the card myself.

RB>> Where? And how? And who was in the room at the time, possibly looking
RB>> at the keyboard?

DS> In the office of the credit union.  The financial assistant was there,
DS> but could not see the keyboard when I typed it in.

Roy explained this and cleared up my misunderstanding. I originally though you
verbally quoted a PIN and it was then entered by a bank employee.

RB>> I'm still not convinced. Dale, this kind of thing is what drives EU
RB>> security people up the wall. "Normal" prople don't even notice the
RB>> problem, but security experts do.

That comment assumed verbal quotation of the PIN.

DS> What is your alternative?  This way, the credit union has no record of
DS> the PIN.  If they generated it for me and sent it to me, they would
DS> have to have created and handled it.  I notice the problem with that
DS> alternative method, but can see nothing to improve the fact that under
DS> the method used, I am the only one who knows its value.

Which basically amounts to what we have here too, since the PINs here are
computer generated (random numbers) and printed into sealed envelopes with the
front and back sides blacked out to prevent anyone from seeing through with a
strong light. You have to actually physically cut the PIN letter apart to see
the PIN, and that makes tampering obvious.

No _human_ handles the PINs and the account number is not printed anywhere on
the PIN letter.

If worst comes to worst, a thief would have to have the PIN, the name and
address of the account holder AND using a separate database with the account
numbers and name/address of the account holders match the PIN to the account
number. But here in Germany, even all that work would only allow a thief to
view the account, not to withdraw or transfer any money. For that, he/she'd
also require a TAN (one-time transaction number).

All in all, it would be easier to wait until some old lady has withdrawn money
from her account at a bank and then rob her. Or trick people into providing the
required information themselves ("phishing"). Which basically is what happens.
There's not much of a market for stolen PINs alone here, since without the TANs
they're worth nothing.

Cheers, Bob

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