Text 33302, 129 rader
Skriven 2009-06-11 06:44:10 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 33268 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Well?
=============
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday June 10 2009 at 16:30:

[The "Pirates"]
MV> 1% is the votes they got in Germany where they only just starterd.
MV> Their target group is much bigger than tat 1%. In Swden they got over
MV> 7% and that is good enough for one, possibly two votes in EP.

I seem to remember that the EP has over 700 members. One, two or even ten seats
won't come even close to a majority or even fraction status. But of course,
they're better than nothing and provide some onformation on inside matters.

RB>> It's not a question of "pleasing everyone", but of removing an
RB>> irritation that might conceiveably prevent some from voting for the
RB>> party.

MV> Whatver you do, you will annoy someone and make him not vpote for you.
MV> It *is* a matter of "pleasing everyone".

Michiel, it's a question of whether the name has positive or negative
associations to the bulk of the population. You see things too simplistically
when you call that "trying to please everyone".

RB>>>> Maybe, but not many think of that when they hear about the latest
RB>>>> piracy around the Somalian coast.

MV>>> How do you know that? Have you asked the voters who voted for the
MV>>> PP?

RB>> The better question would be: Have you asked those who _didn't_ vote
RB>> for them?

MV> Let me ask you then. Did you vote for the PP and if not, why not?

I already wrote that I did, but that I am NOT typical for my age class. Do you
think YOU are typical for yours?

RB>> Aside from that, you'd have to be blind not to see the headlines here
RB>> after each act of piracy - and the mismanaged GSG9 (elite rapid
RB>> deployment force) operation didn't help improve the image.

MV> Sure. You'd also have to be blind not to see the headlines about that
MV> Air France plane that went down in the Atlantic. Neither have anything
MV> to do wth the PP.

Except that the doings around Somalia _do_ center around piracy and pirates.

MV>>> I think you overestimate the effect of the association.

RB>> OK, then I suggest you form a party called "Child Porn Party" and see
RB>> how many votes you get.

MV> Hmm, there actually is - or was - a political party called like that.
MV> They want to ease the laws on sex with children....

And how much of the vote do/did they get?

RB>> Negative associations are _not_ conducive to success in politics.

MV> But the negative associatin exists onl;y in *your* mind.

Hardly. Look at

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,629533,00.html

(German) to see a similar discussion.

MV> Anyway, I *like* the name Pirate Party. It appeals to me. If it puts
MV> some others off, so be it. i woud be very disapponted if they
MV> flip-flopped and changed the name just because someone like you is
MV> irritated by it. in fact, they may lose my vote when they do that.

Which will doubtless tear them up mightily, when they consider the votes they
gained by removing a negative association from the party.

MV>>> Of course they do. They just don't associate the Pirate Party with
MV>>> the pirates in Somalia.

RB>> Even if true - and on what facts do you want to base that statement?
RB>> -

MV> Because I have never heard anyone complain about the name before.

You obviously lead a very sheltered life.

RB>> And if you think the name is unimportant, let me remind you that
RB>> politics is nothing but words. A good politician never underestimates
RB>> the importance of that.

MV> But of course. That name is one of the reasons I like the PP. I like
MV> the name, it sticks out among the many nondescript "please everyone"
MV> names.

Read the article I cited above. Mr. Popp (one of the co-founders of the German
"Pirates") says something similar. It remains to be seen whether notoriety
draws more voters than it repels.

MV>>> Of course they are interested in votes. But you can not please
MV>>> everyone, trying that is often counter productive.

RB>> So concentrate on the minority?

MV> IIRC it has never happened in the history of Dutch politcts that a
MV> party got an absolute majority. Every party is a minority.

Still, there's a difference between 1% and 20% of the vote. No party will form
a coalition with a 1% party.

MV> Of course a party needs votes to achieve its goals. But if a party
MV> starts changing their goals and image in an attempt to get votes they
MV> are not worth a penny in my eyes.

A party that can't or won't adapt to reality is doomed from the start. We have
more than enough of those.

RB>> But I think you are trying to equate a small minority (who voted for
RB>> the PP) with the majority of voters (who didn't).

MV> Like Björn I just do not care all that much about the people who did
MV> not vote for the PP.

In that case, both of you are mere "dabblers" in politics, preferring to
address a small group of the already convinced than to attract those who
presently remain sceptical. That's doubtless an interesting hobby, but not
really a path to change of the status quo.

Cheers, Bob

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