Text 34, 126 rader
Skriven 2007-04-20 22:53:25 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
     Kommentar till text 24 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Shootings
=================
Hello Michiel.

20 Apr 07 10:53, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff!

 MV> On Thursday April 19 2007 18:07, you wrote to me:

 JS>>>> Because holding or owning a gun should not be a sign or
 JS>>>> indication of being a bad guy. I don't consider myself to be
 JS>>>> THAT bad of a guy yet I own a dozen or so guns including three
 JS>>>> handguns.

 MV>>> And this is exactly what the problem is. You believe yourself to
 MV>>> be a good guy, so in your mindset it is perfectly all right for
 MV>>> *you* to have guns.

 JS>>      Again, people having guns is not the problem.

 MV> So if this Korean student did not have guns, he would just have killed
 MV> those 32 people with his bare hands?

     If people were not lawfully allowed to own guns. That would not stop
him from aquiring guns illegally.


     Outlawing the ownership of guns will NOT prevent the bad guys from
getting the guns that they want. The only real effect such a law is likey
to have is to make sure that the bad guys have more guns than anyone else.

 JS>> If I choose to have guns I must also accept the responsibility
 JS>> for the safe and proper use of those guns.

 MV> There is no "safe" use for a gun. The only safe gun is a gun plunging
 MV> into the melting pot of a steel mill.


      A gun is neither safe nor unsafe. It is how PEOPLE act that creates
a safe or unsafe condition regaring a gun. You are putting the blame on
a thing. The blame belongs to the person misusing the gun.

 JS>> The problem is that some people look at having a gun as as status
 JS>> symbol or a mine is bigger than yours thing or as Björn mentioned
 JS>> a macho thing.

 MV> So if that is the problem why give them what they want? Ban guns and
 MV> they can no longer use their guns as a status symbol.


     Someone wanting to show off his new "cannon" are not the people I would
be concerned about. Yup, lets ban guns for everybody because some feel the
need to use a gun as a phalic symbol. I might laugh and maybe pity them
but I wouldn't worry about them becomng a mass murder too much.


 MV>>> But then how many people really consider themselves to be the
 MV>>> bad guys?...

 JS>>      Rather few I would imagine. What determines who are the bad
 JS>> guys I would think is what the end result is of someone having a
 JS>> gun.

 MV> The usual end result is someone with a smoking gun in his hand
 MV> standing over the body of someone with a smoking gun lying next to
 MV> him. You are saying that the guy standing automatically is the good
 MV> guy?

     My fault. I didn't explain myself very well. What determines who are
the bad guys are the end result of what they choose to do with the gun. If
I use a gun to threaten, rob, hurt, kill, etc. then I am a bad guy. The
good guys are the people that don't misuse their gun(s) and you are usually
not even aware that they own any guns.

 BF>>>>> Doesn't it simplify matters for the police if they know that
 BF>>>>> anyone holding a piece is a bad guy?

 JS>>>>     But that often times isn't the case.

 MV>>> It *would* be the case if guns were outlawed.

 JS>>       Outlawing guns isn't the answer. The guns are not the
 JS>> problem. The people are the problem.

 MV> Yes, it is people that are the problem. People who say guns are not
 MV> the problem.

     Once again Michiel your denial doesn't change the fact that guns by
themselves do not hurt anyone. Think about it for a second. A gun ONLY
hurts someone when misused by a PERSON. Change the behavior of the person
and you have made the gun irelevant.

 MV> If you really would be the responsible person you claim to be, you
 MV> would take off your blinders and admit that the fact that it is so
 MV> dammed easy to get a gun in the US *is* the problem. When there are
 MV> guns, they will be used to kill people, and when guns are easy to get
 MV> there will be more guns and when there are more guns, more people will
 MV> be killed by guns. If you were the responsible person you claim to be,
 MV> you would face that reality instead of denying it.

 MV> If you really were a responsible person you would stop inventing
 MV> excuses, give up your guns and start working towords ending the
 MV> situation where everyone can legally have them.

    You are so fixated on needing to deny or rebut what I have to say that
it is becoming laughable. How many times on a variety of topics have you
gone out of you way to try to contradict something that I have said? I can't be
right in your eyes so you feel the need to have to prove me wrong. <sigh>

    Take you head out of the sand Michiel. If you are so concerned then why
not work to deal with the real source of the problem.

    People.

    Making guns illegal to own does NOT take guns of the hands of the bad
guys. If anything it makes more guns available to them.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.van.der.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

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