Text 34314, 271 rader
Skriven 2009-07-06 12:05:12 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 34301 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Hydrogen
================
06 Jul 09 06:33, Robert Bashe wrote to Roy Witt:

 RB> Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Sunday July 05 2009 at 13:04:

 RB>>> For one thing, existing hydrogen fueling stations are supplied
 RB>>> either from a local tank containing liquid hydrogen - something I
 RB>>> still find unsettling in a built-up area

 RW>> Let's take this one first. Having a local tank containing not
 RW>> liquid, but hydrogen gas is as safe as having a propane station in
 RW>> the same neighborhood.

 RB> The local tanks are sometimes filled with liquid hydrogen (according
 RB> to what I read), but otherwise are under a pressure *FAR* above that
 RB> in propane storage tanks (300-700 bar).

Not in California.

"Car and Driver.com

Article: 2 of 229
Honda/Acura Central

We Talk With The Third Lessee of a Honda FCX Clarity - Interview

This Car and Driver.

BY AARON ROBINSON
June 2009

Who: Jim Salomon, 52, Builder
What: Third person to receive a Honda FCX Clarity hydrogen fuel-cell car
Where: Newport Beach, California

With what can you compare the Clarity?

I have to compare this car with my Ford GT, but it's such a totally
different driving experience. The lack of shifting. The lack of gears.
It's got a lot of torque, which surprises me for an environmentally
friendly car.

Are you going to sell any of your four gasoline-powered cars now?

Not all, but probably some of the modern ones. This car replaced a
Mercedes S550. I do not like driving that car anymore. When I got the
Clarity, I drove it for about three weeks. Then I jumped into the Mercedes
to run a quick errand. It felt like there was an anchor tied to the
bumper. I always thought the Benz had good pickup, but the Clarity feels
like you're devoid of gravity.

Do you know how the fuel cell works?

I'm not a scientist, but I am mechanically minded. You basically have an
onboard generator, which is the fuel cell, and it takes hydrogen through
the fuel-cell membranes, which are made up of palladium and other metals,
which creates a reverse electrolysis reaction, which creates electricity
to power the motor.

What's the range?

Honda says 270 miles; I've been getting 220. I drive the car hard. I've
gotten it up to 100 mph.

This car is leased from Honda [$600 per month; 36-month fixed-term,
no-option lease].

What happens if you crash it?

They never said anything about that. The lease includes everything-brakes,
tires. I guess collision, too. You can't take it to Maaco. I definitely do
not want to be the first Clarity driver to crack up a car. I heard the
press crashed one.

It wasn't us."

 RW>> If the tank springs a leak, the gas harmlessly dissapates into the
 RW>> air. Unless there's a means to ignite it, which is taken care of by
 RW>> laws that keep propane and now hydrogen containers free from damage.

 RB> Except for the fact that hydrogen has a different explosion range
 RB> than propane, escapes more easily because of the smaller atomic size,
 RB> dissipates differently and also has a different ignition point.

And the people who know these things are also the people who build the
systems.

"Pump It Up: We Refuel a Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Vehicle - Feature

Fueling up a fuel cell is simple. Fueling up the infrastructure is another
thing entirely.

BY STEVE SILER
November 2008

We've been hearing a lot about hydrogen-powered fuel cells as a viable
power source for everyday vehicles, and we've even seen and driven a few
early examples, including the Chevrolet Equinox fuel cell and the Honda
FCX Clarity, the latter being the world's first fuel-cell-equipped retail
automobile. But one of the most common questions people end up asking is
one that few people-journalists included-have the answer to: What is it
like to "gas" up one of those things?

We decided, then, to ask Chevrolet to lend us one of the 100 or so Equinox
fuel-cell vehicles it has dedicated to its three-year Project Driveway
market test, specifically in order to learn and practice the process of
refueling the thing. We wanted to see how closely the process mirrors that
of filling up a normal car, as well as what sort of adjustments are
required.

Training Required

Chevrolet agreed, but only after submitting us to a two-hour, engineer-led
training session in West Los Angeles at one of a handful of hydrogen
refueling stations currently on line in Southern California. The course
focused on the location of all such stations in SoCal, the pump pressure
offered at each (that determines how much H2 it can cram into the tanks),
a briefing on the Project Driveway program in general, and a walk-around
of the Equinox fuel cell itself, which we recently covered in detail after
driving it in New York. And of course, eventually the engineers showed us
how to actually connect all the hoses and fill 'er up. First, here's how
to get hydrogen from pump to tank.

A Multi-Step Process

At this point, the process of getting the hydrogen from a storage tank to
a vehicle's tank involves a few more steps than a normal fill-up of super
unleaded. After pulling up to the pump and verifying that the station is
"online" by looking for the green light above the pump, one enters a
numeric ID code on the pump's touch screen.

This electronically unlocks a box containing both the hydrogen nozzle and
"communicator" harness-the latter basically a hose full of wires, and the
former a hose full of pressurized hydrogen.

Then it's time to open the vehicle's fuel door to ensure that a green LED
above the fuel receptacle is lit, indicating that the vehicle is ready to
receive fuel.

Communication must then be established between the vehicle and the station
pump, which is done by connecting the sprinkler-head-sized, multi-pronged
plug at the end of the communicator harness into the receiving point on
the vehicle. In the case of the Equinox, this point is located behind the
rear license plate. The communicator tells the pump how much hydrogen is
currently in the tank, as well as other vehicle-related data. This
transfer of data smells of Big Brother, but we imagine that privacy
advocacy groups may have something to say about this before it becomes too
mainstream.

Finally, the actual hydrogen nozzle, which is about the size of a fire
hose, can be attached to the vehicle's fuel receptacle, and upon sealing
the deal-literally-via a twist-grip lever on the hose itself, hydrogen
begins to flow in automatically.

All of this sounds complicated, but in practice, it only requires one
extra step-connecting the communicator-compared with filling up a car with
gas or diesel. Once we became familiar with it, the process wound up
taking maybe 30 seconds longer than inserting a credit card, punching in a
pin, selecting fuel grade, opening the fuel door, and sticking the nozzle
into a regular car. And that extra step is currently being eliminated, as
stations begin to adopt hydrogen-hose assemblies with integrated
communicator devices that are infrared, not hard-wired.

Even better, the process is relatively dirt-free. With the hydrogen pump
and communicator secured in a locked box, both are protected from the
elements when not in use, and the nozzle's vice-like grip on the receiver
allows you to sit back and relax without holding onto the pump yourself.
Nothing gums up your hands, and nothing drips down the car.

The Half-Hour Fill-Up

Now, at this point, just how long you get to sit back and relax after
connecting everything depends on a few things: how much pressure the
vehicle's tank is designed to handle-the Equinox's can handle up to 10,000
psi, and the FCX Clarity's takes 5000 psi-and the type of pump you've
pulled up to. Just as the automobile industry is transitioning to
10,000-psi storage tanks, so is the fueling industry trying to make the
jump. At this point, refueling can take anywhere between five minutes and
an eternity.

With the West L.A. Shell station being one of the 5000-psi facilities, its
pump could fill only about two-thirds of the Equinox's 10,000-psi tanks, a
process that requires some 10 minutes. That's plenty of time to devour a
couple packs of Twinkies or Red Vines, read the sports section of the
newspaper, or appreciate how remarkable it is to be driving what
essentially is a stock Chevy Equinox with absolutely no harmful emissions.
And, of course, expect to answer a good many questions from curious
motorists tapping on your shoulder to ask why your iridescent-gold,
sticker-covered crossover has so many hoses sticking out of it.

With only about a 2.3-kg fill of the Equinox's 4.2-kg maximum capacity,
the lower pump pressure reduces the Equinox's claimed 150-mile range by
about 70 miles. Sadly, in our test car, we watched the distance-to-empty
readout in the gauge cluster plummet faster than GM's recent stock prices
when we climbed hills or suffered through L.A.'s infamous traffic jams.

GM grants Project Driveway participants access to its own 10,000-psi
hydrogen facility in Burbank, which can fill the Equinox's tank all the
way, but that process can take up to 30 minutes. Gratefully, according to
GM, several of the upcoming stations should be able to provide a 4.2-kg
fill in a much more palatable four minutes.

Hydrogen Filling Stations Are Still Rare

Although hydrogen gas is the most abundant element in the universe, there
aren't many places where a person can pump it into an automobile. And
unless you live in Southern California, New York, or Washington, D.C., you
probably don't have one anywhere near your ZIP Code. Unlike gas, hydrogen
for fuel-cell purposes might not have to be shipped or trucked in but
rather is captured and packaged on site, extracted from the station's
supply of water (as is the case with the West L.A. station) or from
natural gas. The equipment required for this, of course, is not cheap for
station owners, with costs ranging between $500,000 and $5,000,000 per
installation. The price depends on factors such as the number and pressure
of the pumps, security measures, and the types of vehicles the facility
intends to serve (i.e., passenger vehicles or commercial vehicles),
according to GM's environmental and energy spokesman Shad Balch.

At the time of our L.A. drive, there were only seven filling stations in
Southern California that GM would allow us to consider using for the
Equinox, not including municipalities, automakers' R&D facilities, and the
like. Four more are slated to open within a month of this writing,
according to GM. Concurrent development in San Francisco, Sacramento, New
York, and D.C. is expected to bring many more facilities online in coming
months. But beyond these initial efforts, many of which are the result of
local government initiatives (read "heavily subsidized"), we don't expect
the hydrogen infrastructure to spread much farther, at least not until
fuel-cell vehicles themselves become available in significant numbers and
a market price for hydrogen is established.

Will Hydrogen Be Cheaper Than Gasoline? Who Knows?

The pump we used quoted the price of hydrogen at $5 per kilogram. The
actual cost for pump hydrogen in the future is difficult to estimate with
any accuracy, though, since the volume and infrastructure aren't yet
mature. Balch cites studies that foresee the price of hydrogen leveling
off between $2 and $4 per kilogram, and he points out that a kilogram of
H2 typically provides more range than a gallon of gas. Once the price of
hydrogen does come down, it should carry a cost per mile that's similar to
or better than that of gasoline. Better yet, once established, the price
is not expected to fluctuate with the same volatility as that of gasoline.

So although the process of pumping hydrogen into a fuel-cell vehicle is
pretty simple (and getting simpler), the process of pumping hydrogen into
our infrastructure could be one of the great challenges of our generation.
At least we can look forward to keeping our hands clean."

 RW>> There's no liquid hydrogen storage involved in this program, yet.

 RB> The information I found was different, but I'll take your word for
 RB> that.

You don't have to. If you've read the above article, you already know that
the Shell station I mentioned and the one in the article are one and the
same and is producing hydrogen gas on the spot and not a liquid.

 RW>> Yeup...living in the dark ages alright.

 RB> OK, then you tell me what you're thinking of, since this was the
 RB> alternative mentioned to tanks of hydrogen on site. If you have some
 RB> "secret", out with it or stop the hinting without anything to back it
 RB> up.

See above.

                R\%/itt

Joy lives in the fight, in the attempt, in the suffering involved, not in
the victory itself.

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