Text 34355, 101 rader
Skriven 2009-07-08 07:24:48 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 34347 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Saberi vs Blom
======================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday July 08 2009 at 01:13:

[Dimitri Sklyaraov]
MV>>> I know, but two wrongs do not make a right. Luring foreignres to
MV>>> one's jursidiction and prosecuting them for something that is not
MV>>> illegal in the country where they did it, is plain wrong.

RB>> "Luring"? He was invited and came voluntarily.

MV> Would he have come if he knew he would be arrested?

I would say that if he were not very ignorant indeed, he should have considered
the possibility.

RB>> "Not illegal"? Russia has laws, too, and hacking other people's
RB>> software is a no-no even there.

MV> How do you know? As I told you "reverse engineering and changing
MV> software to circumvent limitation" (which some call hacking) is legal
MV> in The Netherlands.

Possibly. So hack one of Microsoft's things, sell or otherwise distribute the
hack to make yourself known, and then visit the States. You might be surprised
what then happens, but I wouldn't be.

RB>>>> The main point is that persons who carry out an activity that is
RB>>>> legal where they live have no immunity against prosecution when
RB>>>> they travel to a country where the action is illegal.

MV>>> Which is wrong.

MV> It is wrong because it severely restricts peoples freedom.

Morally you may be right, Michiel, but you'd still better get used to the idea,
since that's the reality in this world. People who ignore that wind up like Mr.
Sklyaraov.

MV> You can not safely travel anywhere if you can get arrested for
MV> breaking a law that you never knew about when you did it because you
MV> were not there.

True enough, but things like preaching racial hate, hacking the software of an
American company (I don't know if other countries are equally strict in
"intellectual property" matters) and engaging in child molestation via the
Internet are hardly minor infractions that can be overlooked. Even if these
things happen to be legal in one's home country, it's very unlikely that anyone
could think they are legal throughout the globe.

MV> Do you know the all the laws of Turkmenistan? If not, better never go
MV> there, because you may have done something which is perfectly legal in
MV> Germany but illegal in Turkmenistan.  You may find yourself arrested
MV> on arrival.

;-) That's why most people inform themselves before visiting.

By the way, you can be arrested in Saudi Arabia for driving a car (if you're a
woman) or allowing a woman to drive a car (if you're a man). But naturally that
doesn't apply outside the country.

[Guns]
RB>>>> Owning one in a foreign country, assuming that could be proven in
RB>>>> the first place, is not illegal even for a European.

MV>>> Indeed it is not, but we can change the law...

RB>> And get the charge thrown out the first time the law is challenged in
RB>> court.

MV> How so? Here courts do not have the authority to challence the law.
MV> They have no choice but to follow the law, no matter how silly it is.

Don't they have a constitutional court in the Netherlands? Critical issues here
are often referred to the constitutional court for a ruling before a lower
court proceeds, if the court thinks the question at issue is constitutionally
questionable.

MV>>> It was American software, (Adobe). AFAIK the systems that he worked
MV>>> on were in Russia.

RB>> Which has no bearing on the fact that he hacked American software.
RB>> That automatically gave the Americans jurisdiction the minute he set
RB>> foot on American soil.

MV> Why? What international treaty gives then that right?

He was arrested in the USA, Michiel, not in Russia. No international issues
were involved.

RB>> He should have stuck to Russian software or stayed in Russia.

MV> You just gave me another good reason to stay away from the US. I have
MV> "reverse engineered and changed American software to circumvent
MV> limitations". Which, I say it again, in itself is legal here.

How much have you sold and how famous are you because of the hack? Even if
illegal in the States, nobody's going to arrest you there if you're an unknown.

Cheers, Bob

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