Text 35899, 92 rader
Skriven 2009-09-09 06:54:28 av Bob Ackley (1:300/3)
  Kommentar till text 35794 av Lee Lofaso (3:800/432.0)
Ärende: Universal health insuran
================================
Replying to a message of Lee Lofaso to Bob Ackley:

 LL> Hello Bob,

 >>> LL>Social security is not welfare, but rather a form of social
 >>> insurance.

 BA>> Social Security is an actuarial disaster;

 LL> Social security is not an annuity, and was never designed or intented
 LL> as such.  It is a form of social insurance.

There's no such thing as 'social insurance.'  Insurance is risk management,
Social Security is a government program designed to keep the old folks voting
for any candidate that will support it.

 BA>> the benefits are too high and the premiums/contributions are
 BA>> way too low.

 LL> The benefits to society can never be too high.

The benefits paid to Social Security recipients - including me - are too high.

 BA>> The difference is provided by Joe Taxpayer.

 LL> As it should, given it is a form of social insurance.

Nobody has the right to the fruits of anybody else's labors.

 BA>> After one has been drawing Social Security for about three years one
 BA>> has exhausted all of one's contributions to the system plus any
 BA>> interest those contributions may have earned; after that one is
 BA>> living off the taxpayers.  Most folks collect Social Security do so
 BA>> for far longer than three years.

 LL> All of society benefits, not any one particular individual.
 LL> That is the purpose of social security.

 LL> Look at it this way -

 LL> Those who want to invest in the stock market should be free to invest
 LL> in the stock market.  Those who want to invest in precious metals
 LL> should be free to invest in precious metals.  Those who want to
 LL> invest in real estate should be free to invest in real estate.  Those
 LL> markets go up or down.  It is the individual who takes the risks,
 LL> investing his/her own money in hopes of making a profit.  So far so
 LL> good, as far as individual investments are concerned.

One does not have the option of not 'investing' in Social Security.  Many
have pointed out that if individuals were allowed to put their Social Security
"contributions" in an IRA instead of giving it to the government they'd be much
better off.

 LL> But social security is not geared to individual investments.  It
 LL> is geared to society as a whole.  IOW, all of society is supposed to
 LL> benefit, not just those individuals who pay into the fund.

 LL> Besides, why should society want to play Russian Roulette by
 LL> investing its funds in the stock market rather than the social
 LL> security trust fund?  Can you just imagine how little our seniors
 LL> checks would be today had GWB gotten his way?

 LL> Of course, investing in gold might not have been a bad idea, given the
 LL> present value of gold is over $1000 an ounce.  :)

 >>> LL>SSI is welfare, although in 1997 the Congress redefined it as being
 >>> LL>an entitlement.

 BA>> Lee, there is no practical difference between 'entitlements' and
 BA>> welfare. People can claim ownership of an 'entitlement,' which is
 BA>> nothing more than ownership of the right to take what one wants from
 BA>> someone else who has it. The fact that a government thug is
 BA>> extracting the money from taxpayers so another government thug can
 BA>> give it to those who are 'entitled' to it doesn' make it any less of
 BA>> a theft.

 LL> The intent and purpose of government is not merely to decide who gets
 LL> what.  Far from it.  The intent and purpose of government is manifold
 LL> - as stated in the Preamble of the U.S. Constitution.  And part of
 LL> that intent and purpose of government is to promote the general
 LL> Welfare.

I keep pointing out to you (and others) that the word is *promote*, not
*provide*;
and that the words are not synonymous.

Government is about force, pure and simple.  As George Washington noted it is
a good servant and a fearful master.  Thomas Jefferson pointed out that 'that
government is best that governs least.'

--- FleetStreet 1.19+
 * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)