Text 3677, 132 rader
Skriven 2007-07-01 12:01:20 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
   Kommentar till text 3650 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Nipple slip
===================
Hello Michiel.

01 Jul 07 15:13, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

 MV> Hello Dale!

 MV> On Saturday June 30 2007 23:22, you wrote to me:

 MVDV>>> Are you sure it is so easy? Then give me three examples of
 MVDV>>> where Björn blatantly violated his own rules.

 DS>> 2. No vulgar language. This includes, but is not limited to,
 DS>> flames
 DS>>    and profanities.

 MV> Yes....

 BF>>> If I well knew I wouldn't ask, would I? No, I don't fucking well
 BF>>> know  that. All I see is you repeatedly telling me that I cannot
 BF>>> write this or that because it upsets you what I write. Now,
 BF>>> read this carefully once again:

 MV> Oh, c'mon you are getting too predictable. I knew you would come up
 MV> with the F word. You call that a blatant violation of the rules?
 MV> Surely you can do better than that.

     Ahh.. But he doesn't have to. Felten's ongoing actions serve to prove
point Dale's quite clearly.


 MV>  Turn on your TV tune to a Hollywood movie and you will hear it every
 MV> five minutes.


     Absolutely and I agree. But that is irelevant to the fact that Felten
as moderator has banned the use of vulgar and profane language in this echo.


 MV>  While I would not quickly use the word myself,I am a bit conservative
 MV> in my choice of words,


     I tend to be that way too.


 MV>  I would call it street language rather than blatantly vulgar.


     I am thinking that if you were to ask 20 moderators if the use of
the "F" word met their criteria of profane and vulgar language. I am sure
that their answer would be yes. The point here Michiel is that the use
of the "F" is generally considered to be vulgar and/or profane. To what
degree each of us are offended by it's use would depend on the individual.
Your attempts to defend Felten fall short. Felten is trying to excuse
himself from having to follow his own rules. That action by itself shows
everyone that he thinks that his actions are exempt from his rules. Based
on his own posts he shows us all how little his rules actually mean. Yet
he expects others to follow them. It isn't really how offensive you or I
think the use of the "F" is. I simply used it as an example of how Felten
thinks he as a user is above the other users in this echo. The rules that
apply to everyone else do not apply to him and his supporters.


 MV> See, there is no easy and objective way to tell what is and
 MV> what is not a violation of the rules...

     That would be the defined by the moderator. Has he stated as moderator
that the use of the "F" word is not vulgar or profane and that it's use is
permitted?

 DS>>   [flame and personal attack]

 BF>>> But then again, you, Mr. Ross, have a long time ago forfeited
 BF>>> your right  to put forward even the slightest criticism against
 BF>>> those that exercise their Freedom of Speech in fidonet. The
 BF>>> "Euro trash pacifist shit pig pussy" remark did forever stamp
 BF>>> you, in case you didn't understand it.

 MV> That is not a flame, nor is it a personal attack. It is forwarding an
 MV> opinion based on past writings of the subject.

     Can you say that Felten has not posted flames and personal attacks
toward others in this echo?

 MV> Again it is merely your *opinion* that it is gross violation of the
 MV> rules.

 DS>> 3. Discuss only articles printed in the Fidonews Publication. A
 DS>> certain amount of straying from this is however expected and
 DS>> encouraged.

 MV> A "certain amount of straying is expacted and encouraged".

 MV> The limits of what is acceptable is a matter of personal opinion.

     Are you not the one that tells us that one's personal opinion does
not matter? What we as users find accepable is irelevant. It would depend
on the moderator and what he decides is acceptable. The rule #3 above seems
clear to me. That being that subjects relating to Fidonews articles are
permitted and that a limited amount of leeway will also be permitted. I take
that to mean that subjects directly related to Fidonews articles or subjects
reasonably close to Fidonews articles are permitted. I would think that any
disputes would be up to the moderator to resolve.

    We can continue to debate this all day if you wish. That doesn't change
the basic fact that Felten does not think enough of this echo or his own
posted rules to bother following them. Yes, he is a moderator here and he
decides what is acceptable behaviour. But it is also clear that what he
thinks is accepable for the users here is not the same as what he thinks
is acceptable for himself.


 DS>>   And we all know that hardly anything posted into this echo has
 DS>>   anything to do with the Fidonews Publication and certainly do
 DS>> not
 DS>>   discuss articles printed in Fidonews.

 MV> Including most if not all of *your* posts.


     Including most of *ALL* posts here. Yours and mine included.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
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