Text 4745, 130 rader
Skriven 2007-07-20 10:12:18 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
   Kommentar till text 4710 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: R&R exchanging insults
==============================
Hello David.

20 Jul 07 19:16, you wrote to me:

 DD> Jeff Smith -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>>> Is Felten on his own in this "illegal" behaviour?

 JS>>      No he is not alone in his behavior. I'm not sure why you
 JS>> would call it "Illegal" but you are entittled to your opinion.

 DD> Illegal - as in "against the law, the rules (of the echo)".

     I will attribute the use of "illegal" to a differance of opinion on
what constitutes an illegal act. Rules of an echo are not what I would
consider legal or illegal. But I think I understand what you were trying
to convey.

 DD>>> It seems that everyone posting here in the last few months is
 DD>>> doing so against the rules.

 JS>>      To a large extent yes they are. When they see the moderator
 JS>> breaking his own rules. It isn't that suprizing or unexpected to
 JS>> see others behave the same way. The moderator SHOW's everyone in
 JS>> this echo just how meaningless his rules are almost on a daily
 JS>> basis. The rules are not the problem David.

 DD> Are you suggesting that he was first, and, like little children, the
 DD> rest followed his lead? Yeah, sure.

     No actually. I think that in the beginning of Felten's tenure as editor
and moderator. He did care about Fidonews and Fidonet and was considerably
more active as moderator. But as he has stated here he got burnt out and
frustrated in dealing with the "idiots". And as I have told him I understand
the frustration as I have been there too. When someone reaches that point they
either need to handle it or move away from the situation that is causing the
frustration. A move that in this case would be as good for Fidonews as it
would be for Felten. Both would benefit.

 DD> The rules ARE the problem if everyone is ignoring them.

     Why are you choosing to avoid the real point here David? The rules are
not the problem. Rules don't mean anything to anyone regardless of how good
they might be if noone is enforcing those rules.  A law that the authorities
never enforce means nothing to the people and will get broken constantly. The
same applies here. The rules are ok but if they do not get enforced and
especially if they are visibly broken by the same person whoose job it is to
enforce them. Noone is going to take those rules seriously. As can be seen
in this echo.


 DD> In that case they are not worth the paper they are written on, and
 DD> should be discarded.

     Which would be convenient for who? Certainly not the users of this
echo I would think. Course that IS the moderator. Who has shown us how
hindering the rules are to his posting style.


 DD> Do you remember the concept of "democracy'?

     When was Fidonet ever a democracy?

 DD>>>  This point to the rules being grossly out of date.

 JS>>       No it doesn't. It points to a moderator that has chosen to
 JS>> no longer moderate. He has stated as much right here in this
 JS>> echo. He has in fact given the responsibility of moderating to
 JS>> the users BUT wants to keep the tittle of moderator for himself.
 JS>> The boat you are trying to bail the water out of is sinking
 JS>> David. Felten has given up but is so into the Z2 thing and the
 JS>> tittle of moderator/editor that he is willing to let any
 JS>> remaining interest in Fidonews die out. Fidonews may fade away
 JS>> and die with Felten as editor and moderator. Gee.... What a
 JS>> legacy he can then tell people about.

 DD> Is that what this hobby is about, telling people about legacies? Hmmm
 DD> I don't recall that bit in Policy.

 DD>>> They should be adjusted to suit what the majority of posters
 DD>>> want.

 JS>>      More like adjusted to fit the moderator's current style.
 JS>> When was the last time he posted a message as moderator to
 JS>> enforce his posted rules?

 DD> I don't have taps into his netmail so I cannot say the last time he
 DD> sent a moderation message. Do you?

      To the extent that I have asked people on both sides and gotten
and gotten responses. Yes.

      When was the last time that Felten showed any attempt to moderate
anyone in this echo. Anyone from either side can claim the (non)existance
of private moderation netmails having been sent.


 JS>> When was the last time he broke his own rules?

 DD> Are you sure he _IS_ breaking them? Maybe his interpretation isn't the
 DD> same as yours - then again, you too are breaking those rules (well, my
 DD> interpretation of them), but I think the rules should be discarded so
 DD> I don't mind posters breaking them.

 DD>>> A law that is broken by most people is a bad law.

 JS>>      Your kidding right? You crack me up David.

 DD> Why do we have laws? If most people think a law is wrong, it _is_
 DD> wrong.

 DD> Just as what is "right" is what the majority consider to be "right"

     If the majority where you live decide it is right to steal and
kill. It is then right in your mind for them to do so?


 DD> --

 DD> regards

 DD> David

 DD> ---
 DD>  * Origin: Here (3:640/305)

Jeff

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