Text 7827, 100 rader
Skriven 2007-12-11 00:37:40 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
   Kommentar till text 7787 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: George W. Bush
======================
Hello Michiel.

10 Dec 07 16:36, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff,

 MV> On Monday December 10 2007 00:49, you wrote to me:

 MV>>>>> Argumentation trick #3: distraction.

 RC>>>> Was quoting directly what he said a distraction from what he
 RC>>>> said?

 MV>>> It is a distraction from the subject at hand.

 JS>>      No Michiel. I simply asked you what you would do if
 JS>> presented with that situation.

 MV> The distraction was not you asking the question, the distraction was
 MV> in Ross' interjection. He was turning it into a "our system is better
 MV> that yours", something I wish to avoid. That was not my my point.

 JS>>      If presented with a situation where you could but were not
 JS>> obligated to vote for a particular candidate and you were not
 JS>> happy with either of the candidates. What would you do?

 MV> I prefer to avoid hypotheticles and stick to the original issue. The
 MV> situation has no equivalent in Dutch politics, so what I would do in
 MV> such a situation is a moot point.

    But it does make it easier for others to understand your reasoning process
and why you may choose to have a particular point of view. My intention is
not to try to pin you down to a opinion that I can attack you on. It is
easier to understand each other when talking about one's choice regarding a
common scenario.


 MV> I do not want to enter into debate about the flaws or benefits of the
 MV> US system. And I certainly do not want to go into a "mine is bigger
 MV> than yours" fight. All I wanted to do is bring some nuance to the "it
 MV> is not the American people that we have an issue with, it is the
 MV> American gevernment".

    And that is fine. The problems/concerns that I have are also with the
government and not the people.

 MV> My point was that since the US is not a dictatorship, the people of
 MV> the US share responsibility for what their leaders do. Ross is right,
 MV> it is not Bush alone. Bush could not have done what he did, did he not
 MV> at least have *some* support. He needs approval from congress and
 MV> congress consists of representatives elected by the people.

 MV> You saying: "the problem is the politicians" is not very reassuring
 MV> for those who fear the USA. I think Bob Bashe got it right: it is note
 MV> hate, it is fear. After the end of the cold war the balance of power
 MV> is lost. The US have the weapons, they have he means to deliver them
 MV> and the man in the White House appears to be the madman that is
 MV> willing to us them.

     There are a number of leaders of other countries that are willing to
use them. In the post cold ware era the question that arrose is who gets to
to try to deter others from using their weapons? Should the US mind it's
own business and let other countries do as the choose except if it impacted
the US directly? If so, where would we be? Was the removing of the Hussain
regime in Iraq the right thing done for the wrong reason? I don't think
there is a best solution or answer here Michiel. The US has been rightly
or wrongly the country that many others countries look to for direction and
leadership in world affairs. It is therefor not suprising that the US is also
the country that gets the bulk of the critisum from others. If the US had
chosen years ago to mainly remain unto itself. I am sure that the leaders
of other countries would have taken actions that they desired to take but
were afraid to. Me thinks the world would be alot differant than it is today.


 MV> If it is true what you say that the the problem is the politicians and
 MV> there is little or nothing that the people can do about it, that is
 MV> really frightening. Because in that case we not only may have a madman
 MV> at the helm in Washington, but no one can stop him and there is no one
 MV> who can prevent it from happening again.

    People being scared isn't what bothers me. A change in leadership is
the first step toward the taking of a differant path. Regardless of what
new path if any that is taken it will be right for some and wrong for
others.


 MV> Can you understand why that thought scares people?

    Yes I can Michiel.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
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