Text 13558, 103 rader
Skriven 2011-01-11 15:31:24 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
Ärende: Welcome to the 21st century in a supposedly civilized country
=====================================================================
Hello Ross,

On Tuesday January 11 2011 09:07, you wrote to me:

 RC> Atheism is a position to describe what one believes..

NO!

It is a position that describes what one does NOT believe.

 RC>>> No human has ever observed either...

 MV>> The result of the big bang is observed.

 RC> The result of a theory, but intoto, the big bang theory cannot be
 RC> proven as of now.

Unrefutable proof only exists in mathematics.

Observation tells me that when a stone is released it will fall down. The
theory of gravity is based on that observation. Over the ages millions of
stones have been dropped and no one has ever seen one fall upwards. There is no
way tp PROVE that it will never happen though...

 MV>> As for evolution, it HAS been directly observed. Viruses mutate so
 MV>> quickly that the changes can be directly observed. The H5N1 bird flu
 MV>> virus did not exist when you were born. It EVOLVED out of other flu
 MV>> viruses. That is evolution and we can see it happening.

 RC> But what we did not see, is our own origins..

So what? That does not disprove the theory.

 RC>>> They are theories..

 MV>> That's what I said.

 RC> Then theories cannot be fact..

I did not say they were.

 MV>> It is a theory based on the observations of the effects that were
 MV>> caused by it. Such as the observed fact of the expansion of the
 MV>> universe and the 3K background radiation.

 RC> But that does not convert theory into fact.

Of course not. Theories are theories and facts are facts.

Some theories are more plausible than others. Some theories are so plausible
that they almost become facts. E.g. the theory that stones fall down when
dropped.

 RC> Observable occurences led many to believe the world was flat and that
 RC> the sun/moon/stars orbitted the earth.

Sure. For cave man the earth WAS flat for all intents and purposes. For
catching rabbits one does not need to take the curvature of the earth into
account. The model of a flat earth suited him fine.

But what ever so often happens with models: at closer look, they appear to have
limited scope. When man started to travel large distances, the flat earth model
needed a revision. For practical purposes the flat earth model is still good
enough if you do not travel too far. The theory of the flat earh was however
disproven and replaced by another theory: the earth is is a sphere. Still at
the centre of the universe though, with the celestial bodies revolving around
it. Later that theory was also disproven and replaced by the theory that the
earth and the planets revolve around the sun. The religious fanatics did not
like that and executed the messenger by buring him. That did not make the
message go away.

 RC>>> B. Evidence to refute it.

 MV>> There are things unexplained yet. "Unexplained" is not the same
 MV>> as "refuted"

 RC> Yet unexplained cannot turn the big bang theory into fact.

See above.

Theories are never proven. Theories can only be disproven. A theory that can
not be disproven in principle is a bad theory as it violates Popper's criterium
of falsifiability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

Theories get stronger, the longer it takes to disprove them. Most theories are
disproven or refined at some point. The theory of the big bang has not been
disproven yet. It has been refined a couple of times though.

 RC>>> So where were you when the universe exploded into existence? <g>

 MV>> Where were you when I was born?

 RC> In mourning... ;-)

So you mourned before you were born? Are you a believer of reincarnation?


Cheers, Michiel

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