Text 15210, 115 rader
Skriven 2011-03-14 21:45:42 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
     Kommentar till en text av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Leeching...
===================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Monday March 14 2011 at 16:18:

MV>>> People who seek better living conditions, do not move to a "welfare
MV>>> state" per sé. What they do is move to the nearest state with a
MV>>> strong economy. For the people in North Africa that happens to be
MV>>> Europe. For the people in Mexico that happens to be the USA. I think
MV>>> we agree that the USA is not a welfare state.

RB>> Compared to Mexico? Better check that again.

MV> Compared to Europe, the USA must be hell for illegal immigrants.

But what does a Mexican care about Europe? Zilch.

MV> So why do the Mexicans all go to the USA? Why do they not go to Europe
MV> wher the leeching is much better. Or Venezuela or Brazil?

Because it's closer and it's easier to get into the system. Why would a Mexican
go to Venezuela or Brazil, anyway? They have their problems with poverty too.
Might as well stay at home than go there.

MV>>> Illegal immigration is a relatively minor problem that does not
MV>>> significantly contribute to high taxes in Europe.

RB>> So? Better talk to the people at city hall in Datteln and other
RB>> cities, which are forced to house and feed "asylum seekers"

MV> It is people like Geert Wilders and the late Georg Haider who grossly
MV> amplified the problem in their rethorics.

Unfortunately, they only say openly what the majority of the population thinks.
Same in Germany, same in Denmark. That's not "politically correct", but
reflects the facts as most people see them.

MV> 2nd generation immigrants now have LESS children on average than the
MV> Dutch.

Second generation Turks? Or second generation Vietnamese? There's a _big_
difference in Germany. There's no problem integrating people from the far east
in Germany, although there are a lot of Vietnamese who originally came to the
GDR and are still in united Germany. But except for their appearance, which
they can't change, they've integrated without difficulty. Not so the muslims.

RB>>>> Your solution?

MV>>> To what problem?

RB>> To the problem you also have in the Netherlands,

MV> The problem exists only in the mind of the extremist like Geert
MV> Wilders.

And "extremists" in practically every other EU country presently affected by
non-integrated, non native-speaking, intentionally optically distinct (burkah,
headscarves) islamic "asylum seekers".

RB>> but is more serious in Germany as we are closer to the source. The
RB>> Italians, Greeks and Poles are the ones bearing the brunt of this,
RB>> and the feeling among the "native populations" (Dutch, German,
RB>> Italian, Greek, Polish and the like) is increasingly turning from
RB>> sympathy to rejection: "This is _our_ country, after all".

MV> The Netherlands has always been a country that stood open for others.

To the extent that the Dutch are willing to give up their country to foreigners
who are not willing to adopt the mores of the host country, but expect the host
country to adopt _their_ customs and attitudes? I think not. The pendulum has
swung in the other direction, and people are now demanding integration rather
than a "multiculti" mischmasch that would eventually destroy the character of
_their_ country.

MV> Shortly after 1832, there even was a large inrush of Belgians.

Aha! So _that's_ where all this comes from... ;-)

RB>> Naturally, we're not talking about educated people with skills that
RB>> are needed in host countries - the kind of people who can also get an
RB>> immigration visa for the USA or Canada - but we _are_ talking about
RB>> uneducated laborers from rural villages who neither speak nor
RB>> understand the local language

MV> All that wears off in two, three generatiosn at most.

You hope. There are enough examples of third-generation Turks in Germany still
unable to speak decent German, still living on welfare, to debate that.
Naturally that's not everyone, but such cases _do_ exist, and not only a few.
They're not merely my imagination.

MV> In 1948 we had a large influx of Molukkans.

I can still remember the train bombings by the southern Moluccans in the
Netherlands.

RB>> The mistake Germany, and many other EU countries made, was to neglect
RB>> to set up immigration procedures like they have in the States and
RB>> Canada, whose prime focus is to attract people who will benefit the
RB>> country.

MV> So why is it that the US has a problem with immigrants from Mexico,
MV> Haiti and other contries in the Carabian?

_Illegal_ immigrants, not legal ones. Long borders, hard to guard. The EU has
it relatively easy in comparison. But the EU has no comparable immigration
policy.

MV> Why di they not come to Europe if the "leeching" is so much better
MV> here?

Are you kidding? The average Mexican peon doesn't even know where Europe is -
but he knows he has a brother in Los Angeles.

Cheers, Bob

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